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Thread: Variation in Bench Press Study

  1. #1
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    Variation in Bench Press Study

    I thought this was a pretty good read and figured I would post it on here to hear some comments and to share

    http://www.angelfire.com/tx/APATX/ar...nch_Press.html

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    lol concrete proof that you can work the upper and lower pec more or less by bench position, you cannot argue with the EMG

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    cakin Cirino83's Avatar
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    I still believed that you can isolate the chest despite what everyone here says. If I were to do incline bench only, I would feel it in the 'upper' section only the next day. Same goes for flat and decline......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirino83 View Post
    I still believed that you can isolate the chest despite what everyone here says. If I were to do incline bench only, I would feel it in the 'upper' section only the next day. Same goes for flat and decline......
    your believe is backed up by the EMG so everyone else who doesn't believe must admit defeat
    Last edited by smokinHawk; 06-22-2007 at 12:02 PM.

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    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    I'm just curious what made you think that this "study" was "good".

    1st. It wasnt a study.

    2nd. The referance to and quoting of professional bodybuilders who have no education and credibility on the topic of EMG studies should have been a hint as to this articles credibility.

    3rd. The studies that he referances use only surface and not needle emg techniques to determine their results, the flaws in this method have already been discussed on this website, search.

    4th. NONE of the referances said that incline bench press stimulate the clavicular head of the pec major more than flat, in fact the first study actually stated right in the abstract that no difference in the incline vs flat bench in clavicular head. (I admit I dont have full access to the complete studies) There are other studies that do find this, but not the ones he referanced.

    So either the author is confused or is actually lying about the results of the studies he is referancing (which area all over 10 years old by the way, which is in itself not considered very credible on such a topic).
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirino83 View Post
    I still believed that you can isolate the chest despite what everyone here says. If I were to do incline bench only, I would feel it in the 'upper' section only the next day. Same goes for flat and decline......
    "Feeling" it the next day in a certain spot does not mean those fibers were fatigued any more than the entire chest was. Thats like saying muscle soreness is an indicator of growth because you can "feel" that you worked them. Obviously, thats not correct either
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinHawk View Post
    your believe is backed up by the EMG so everyone else who doesn't believe must admit defeat
    It may be about time to forget about your silly quest of the "upper/lower" chest debate that ignores actual scientific journals. Its getting old.

    Refer to Smalls's post. He makes it pretty clear why your comment was so silly
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 06-22-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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    Senior Member Howard 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    It may be about time to forget about your silly quest of the "upper/lower" chest debate that ignores actual scientific journals. Its getting old.

    Refer to Smalls's post. He makes it pretty clear why your comment was so silly
    ok your right all hail you, i will continue to use the incline as a form of working my upper chest. good luck to you in whatever you do.
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard 9 View Post
    ok your right all hail you, i will continue to use the incline as a form of working my upper chest. good luck to you in whatever you do.
    Does this also mean youre going to rip up by doing hundreds of crunches and lots of reps too?
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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard 9 View Post
    ok your right all hail you, i will continue to use the incline as a form of working my upper chest. good luck to you in whatever you do.
    Nice sarcasm.



    Still wrong, but you get half a point for trying to be clever.


    I ****ing hate this debate.
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    Senior Member KoolDrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirino83 View Post
    I still believed that you can isolate the chest despite what everyone here says. If I were to do incline bench only, I would feel it in the 'upper' section only the next day. Same goes for flat and decline......
    isolate - to set or place apart; detach or separate so as to be alone.

    You CANNOT isolate different portions of the chest. If you're working any part of the chest, the whole muscle is contracting, not just part of it. I do believe by doing incline bench a bit more emphasis may be placed on the upper chest, but this is not isolation, as the rest of the chest is still being worked.

    That's at least my understanding based on reading past debates on this subject.

  12. #12
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post

    I ****ing hate this debate.

    Worst debate ever. It will never end and it doesnt matter anyway.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
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    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  13. #13
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    another upper/lower chest debate?

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    Its not even a debate. Its like people arguing the sky is green.
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    AAAAAAH but the sky can be green.
    Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Its not even a debate. Its like people arguing the sky is green.
    You can't argue with people like this. It's the same on the streets whenever people try to tell me running is better for losing weight then lifting weights and running like 2-3 times a week. Also like the whole do a hundred crunches to get your abs to show belief. Then the ever popular do tons of reps to get "toned".

    These are things you can't convince people of no matter what. Whenever I tell people different on the streets they just look at me like yea right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by method115 View Post
    These are things you can't convince people of no matter what. Whenever I tell people different on the streets they just look at me like yea right.
    Maybe they just find it odd that you're going up to people on the street talking about your pecs.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    Maybe they just find it odd that you're going up to people on the street talking about your pecs.
    LOL

    So would it also be weird to do the pec dance to the cashier when youre getting your order taken at McDonalds?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinHawk View Post
    lol concrete proof that you can work the upper and lower pec more or less by bench position, you cannot argue with the EMG


    EMG results have been consistently debunked on here when it comes to such studies. Powerman for one has done this a few times.

    And no there is no upper/lower pec. Where is the line of separation please?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-22-2007 at 10:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    And no there is no upper/lower pec. Where is the line of separation please?
    Upper and lower refer to the clavicular and sternal heads, respectively, of the pectoralis major. I don't know anatomy enough to tell you if they are seperate muscles, or just the insertion points of the same muscle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    Upper and lower refer to the clavicular and sternal heads, respectively, of the pectoralis major. I don't know anatomy enough to tell you if they are seperate muscles, or just the insertion points of the same muscle.
    Upper/lower is referred as "regional hypertrophy" of one muscle. The fibers all attatch to the humerus except that the fibers that start at the bottom of the chest attatch at a higher point on the humerus than do the fibers that start on the top. The twisting of these fibers allows most chest movements to work all of the pectoral fibers at once. This makes it pointless to try and develop your "upper chest" by isolating it when maximal development would occur by focusing energy on a simple flat benchpress.
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    Senior Member Howard 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Upper/lower is referred as "regional hypertrophy" of one muscle. The fibers all attatch to the humerus except that the fibers that start at the bottom of the chest attatch at a higher point on the humerus than do the fibers that start on the top. The twisting of these fibers allows most chest movements to work all of the pectoral fibers at once. This makes it pointless to try and develop your "upper chest" by isolating it when maximal development would occur by focusing energy on a simple flat benchpress.
    Ok so then using your beliefs than on incline you are using your lower pecs as much as upper?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Does this also mean youre going to rip up by doing hundreds of crunches and lots of reps too?
    Obviously.
    Last edited by Howard 9; 06-23-2007 at 01:18 AM.
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Re-read my post bud. I said MOST chest movements. The incline shifts work to the deltoids.

    I think an anatomy book would do wonders for you. This isnt just my "beliefs".. This is the biology of the muscle fibers.
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 06-23-2007 at 01:29 AM.
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    p.s

    What lower chest? You cant question a biological statement with an illusion that doesnt exist.
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    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

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    Senior Member Howard 9's Avatar
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    So your front delts do no work on flat?

    Theres no way you can say the workload is equal in the upper and lower chest on incline.

    Also if what your saying is right it should be on all excercises not just some.
    Last edited by Howard 9; 06-23-2007 at 01:53 AM.
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