The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    big benchers: get in here

    i know their are many PL routines out their to get a big bench. i need to ask what lifts has gave you a carryover to your bench? how many times did you work chest per week? how many times did you bench per week?


    i am in need to figure why my bench (raw & shirted) isnt going up, but instead downhill. im progressing deadlift/squat but not bench. i have taken days off, done 1-4" boards, mini bands, average bands, CG/tricep work, floor press, bench 2x week, and shoulder work for the past 2-3 months and it just hasnt worked for me.

    sometime during april/march 07, my best ever raw bench was 275lb and 315lb with loose shirt. till today, its the same. 2-3 weeks ago, i attempted my max raw/shirted bench again but failed it. i been eating the same since. if anything, ive actually gained minor pounds overall. what could i be doing wrong?

    here is my training log which doesnt go too far back: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=96773


    any advice?

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  3. #2
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    Look at Vincent's training log for raw advice, and check mine or TT's for Shirt benching. You can't work on both at the same time. Pick one and focus on it.

  4. #3
    phil 4:13 Bako Lifter's Avatar
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    How about just regular benching? Nothin special, just the basics. How long has it been since you've done that?

    Also, I'm not sure how my bench came to be what it is, but the thing I do different from most is low incline dumbell press. I guess you could try that.

    Lol, I'm not a big bencher though.

  5. #4
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    I just looked at your training log. Here's a couple things about PLing

    1. You train BENCH not chest
    2. Train a movement not a muscle group - all back, shoulder, and triceps work is done to increase you BENCH.
    3. Read EliteFTS.com - all the Powerlifting articles by Louie Simmons, Dave Tate, and Jim Wendler, or look at my training log and Vincent's training log, because that's what we do. You do WAY TOO much work.

  6. #5
    GUERRILLAPRESS ARMY!! rmccray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Look at Vincent's training log for raw advice, and check mine or TT's for Shirt benching. You can't work on both at the same time. Pick one and focus on it.
    WORD!!

  7. #6
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    i looked at your log and vincents as well. i see where your going when doing too much work. you guys train 3 compounds and other minor stuff. ill give that a try.

    later today im doing bench, let me know what you guys think of this workout...

    raw bench: 5x5
    1 board: 3x3
    3 board: 3x3
    decline bench: 3x5

  8. #7
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    i looked at your log and vincents as well. i see where your going when doing too much work. you guys train 3 compounds and other minor stuff. ill give that a try.

    later today im doing bench, let me know what you guys think of this workout...

    raw bench: 5x5
    1 board: 3x3
    3 board: 3x3
    decline bench: 3x5
    Too much benching

    Here is what I would do:
    raw 5x5
    pick one board and go 3x3
    one lat exercise for 4x10
    one bicep exercise for 4x10
    2 sets of high rep pushdowns

  9. #8
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    I'm with RhodeHouse in that you need to train bench, not "chest".

    I always do flat barbell bench (mixing up sets reps), and then 1 or two variations, such as close grips or floor presses, and then focus on triceps. I might do weighted tricep dips, pressdowns, JM presses, or Kaz presses to focus on tri's.

    I mostly focus on upping my raw bench during the early part of my cycles and then start shirt work about 4-5 weeks out from a meet.
    5'9" 195 lbs
    DL 600x1
    SQ 490x1 (raw)
    BP 430x1 (shirted), 320x1 (raw)
    SN 209x1 C+J 250x1


    My Training Journal
    www.illinipowerlifting.org

    "Most people don't want to learn new things. They only want to hear about things that validate crap they're already doing." - Mike Boyle

  10. #9
    Senior Member levronefan's Avatar
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    eat more, A LOT MORE...you gain more weight your lift will go up..

  11. #10
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    raw bench: 5x5
    1 board: 3x3
    3 board: 3x3
    decline bench: 3x5
    Too many big movements.

    I do similar to what waws said above:
    1 heavy bench movement
    1-2 exercises for tri's
    1 heavy row or pull lift
    maybe something for delts and Bi's(but probably not haha)

    K.I.S.S. <<--- Thats what I learned after years of training!
    Best Meet @ Lifts@181:...............Best gym lifts
    Squat...- 403..........................Squat....- 395 w/belt
    Bench...- 303..........................Bench....- 300....Paused in meet - 281
    Deadlift.- 503.....Unofficial 513...Deadlift..- 490
    Total....- 1,203...IPF Class II......All done raw, Touch'n go bench

    "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Robert F. Kennedy

    "A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he gives up"

    "However beautiful the strategy you should occasionally look at the results" John Berardi

    Powerlifting Westside Style

  12. #11
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    i wished i wouldve read this before i left the door but oh well.

    heres what i did: raw bench: warmup, 205lbx5, 225lbx5 (5 sets)
    3 board press: 275lbx3, 285lbx3, 285lbx3
    floor press: 135lbx5, 205lbx5, 225lbx5 (3 sets)
    3 sets of db curls
    2 sets of hanging leg raises, crunches, and side bends.

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...t=96773&page=2


    i was gonna do direct back/shoulder/tri work on another day and call it bench assist day.

  13. #12
    NASA KY CHAIRMAN NASAKYCHAIRMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    i looked at your log and vincents as well. i see where your going when doing too much work. you guys train 3 compounds and other minor stuff. ill give that a try.

    later today im doing bench, let me know what you guys think of this workout...

    raw bench: 5x5
    1 board: 3x3
    3 board: 3x3
    decline bench: 3x5
    Definitely, too many compound movements.

    I would suggest doing 1- 2 compound movements.

    Increase your protein & recuperation with AtLarge Nutrition Maximum Muscle Mass Stack. http://atlargenutrition.com/nutritio...?products_id=9


    EXAMPLE ROUTINE
    1st week
    raw bp 5 x 5
    pause close grip bp(4 sets)

    2nd week
    pause 3 board press(7-10 sets)

    3rd week
    Pause flooor press(7-10 sets)

    4th week
    raw bp 3 x 3
    rack lockouts(4-6 sets)

    5th week
    pause 1 board press(7-10 sets)
    Pause incline bp(4-5 sets)

    6th week
    Pause floor press(7-10 sets)
    Pause decline bp(4-5 sets)

    7th week
    raw bp 5 x 5
    Heavy weighted dips(4-5 sets)

    8th week
    Pause 5 board press
    pause dumbbell bp(4-5 sets)


    J.T. HALL
    http://www.myspace.com/bigwillie12345
    http://www.atlargenutrition.com

  14. #13
    lockupgym.com waynedang's Avatar
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    Welll I'm not a big bencher but when I am about 8-10 weeks out I get my shirt work in on one day with a set or two of 20 rep tricep pushdowns and some light assistance worrk on another day. My joints can no longer handle all the volume I did in the past. More is not always better. It took a long time for me to learn that.
    pain is inevitable suffering is optional

    www.ryanopower.com

    http://www.prowriststraps.com

  15. #14
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    Oh, c'mon Wayne. I'd consider you a "big bencher". Benching 500lbs isn't bad weighing barely 220lbs.
    5'9" 195 lbs
    DL 600x1
    SQ 490x1 (raw)
    BP 430x1 (shirted), 320x1 (raw)
    SN 209x1 C+J 250x1


    My Training Journal
    www.illinipowerlifting.org

    "Most people don't want to learn new things. They only want to hear about things that validate crap they're already doing." - Mike Boyle

  16. #15
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    how does this look for bench assistance day (for saturdays workout...2 days after bench)

    db rows 3x8 (each arm)
    military press 3x8
    rear lat raise 2x10 (each arm)
    weighted dips 3x12

  17. #16
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    I like to add close grip speed benching on my accessory/DE day, seems to help allot so i have a good benching day the next ME session.

  18. #17
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    should i add that or replace it with the dips?

  19. #18
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    I would replace the dips.
    CGBP is just overall better IMO than dips for bench strength. Mainly because the motions are similar.
    Best Meet @ Lifts@181:...............Best gym lifts
    Squat...- 403..........................Squat....- 395 w/belt
    Bench...- 303..........................Bench....- 300....Paused in meet - 281
    Deadlift.- 503.....Unofficial 513...Deadlift..- 490
    Total....- 1,203...IPF Class II......All done raw, Touch'n go bench

    "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Robert F. Kennedy

    "A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he gives up"

    "However beautiful the strategy you should occasionally look at the results" John Berardi

    Powerlifting Westside Style

  20. #19
    Senior Member GroundControl's Avatar
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    I wish I could bench.

  21. #20
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I am not a big bencher, but I follow a routine that is basically the same as most of the guys on my team(and a bunch of them are strong).


    The East End Barbell method(mostly stolen from John Bernor)

    We bench 2 days per week. One day is devoted to shirt work. This is the day we would do heavy boards, heavy bands, Some do lockouts(John doesn't like them), Floor presses, etc.

    The other day is a raw assistance day. Here we do a number of movements, but only 1-2 worksets of each. We start the cycle off with real high reps(like 15-20) and work it up each week ala progressive overload.


    This combo has worked real good for most of us. Two heavy days a week can be brutal. The way we do it, we skip a heavy bench session usually once every 3-6 weeks.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  22. #21
    lockupgym.com waynedang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Oh, c'mon Wayne. I'd consider you a "big bencher". Benching 500lbs isn't bad weighing barely 220lbs.
    584 thank you very much still not 6
    pain is inevitable suffering is optional

    www.ryanopower.com

    http://www.prowriststraps.com

  23. #22
    lockupgym.com waynedang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    I am not a big bencher, but I follow a routine that is basically the same as most of the guys on my team(and a bunch of them are strong).


    The East End Barbell method(mostly stolen from John Bernor)

    We bench 2 days per week. One day is devoted to shirt work. This is the day we would do heavy boards, heavy bands, Some do lockouts(John doesn't like them), Floor presses, etc.

    The other day is a raw assistance day. Here we do a number of movements, but only 1-2 worksets of each. We start the cycle off with real high reps(like 15-20) and work it up each week ala progressive overload.


    This combo has worked real good for most of us. Two heavy days a week can be brutal. The way we do it, we skip a heavy bench session usually once every 3-6 weeks.
    What does a typical raw day look like for you guys?
    pain is inevitable suffering is optional

    www.ryanopower.com

    http://www.prowriststraps.com

  24. #23
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynedang View Post
    What does a typical raw day look like for you guys?
    This is copied from Bernor's journal. This was his raw workout earlier this week. He is getting ready to compete at the Cincinatti Pro-Am meet being run by Louie Simmons.

    narrow grip(pointer on smooth)
    390x11.PRAISE GOD

    paused incline barbell
    315x10

    seated dumbell shoulder press
    120'sx16

    comp grip to 2 board with doubled purples
    275x9..GOD IS AWESOME

    barbell ext with doubled purple(60 sec btwn sets)
    135x8
    135x5
    135x3

    JESUS LIVES..DO U KNOW HIM????



    Of course he is a freak of nature. I do similar things as far as reps, I just usually pick some different exerices(like declines, dips, etc.)
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  25. #24
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    ^are those 1 set per lift? what is bb ext?

  26. #25
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    I like the Westside template especially for new guys because it has them do assistance for upper body twice a week. I think newer/younger guys just need to concentrate on getting bigger/developing more muscle and the strength will come.

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