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Leeman
09-11-2007, 09:07 AM
I have come to the point where I cant think of anything else other than benching 405, I am currently doing a bench program that I modified a bit, its 12 weeks long and I think its pretty good, the reps dont change but the weights change on everything every week and the weights are kept prety heavy.

What lifts do you all think I will need to hit a 405 touch and go bench, those lifts being.

Close grip bench,
Dips,
Incline bench,
barbell strict shoulder press, "seated but no back to the seat ,starting at the bottom.


My current lifts are,
Bench 365, touch and go
Close grip 275x7-9
Incline 325x1
barbell shoulder press, 225x1
Dips are new so Im not going real heavy yet.


What legal sups would you take if you were me, other than protein and weight gainer supps, I have that prety much covered with my normal diet of everything in site.

And my last question is has anyone seen a website or a article talking about balanced bench strength,

Like what percent of your bench should your incline, decline, close grip, floor press, or shoulder press be compared to your bench. I know its different for everyone but I would find it realy intresting to look at. There is only one I have found by Coach Poliquin and it seems to be a little limited.



Thanks for any help guys:clap:


Il post my routine so you guys can see what Im doing.

____________________________________________
SUNDAY##

Bench
Week 1: 8x3x220**********
Week 2: 8x3x240**********
Week 3: 6x3x260
Week 4: 8x3x250
Week 5: 6x3x270
Week 6: 6x3x285
Week 7: 6x3x280
Week 8: 3x3x295
Week 9: 3x3x315
Week 10: 3x3x330
Week 11: 3x3x350
Week 12: Off
Week 13: 1x3x365


Close Grip
Week 1: 185x5,205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5********
Week 2: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5********
Week 3: 185x5,205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5
Week 4: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5
Week 5: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 6: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5
Week 7: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 8: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 9: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 10: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 11: 250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5,315x5
Week 12: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 13: 250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5,315x5

Shoulder Press
Week 1: 135x8,145x8,155x8*********
Week 2: 145x8,155x8,165x8*********
Week 3: 135x8,145x8,155x8
Week 4: 145x8,155x8,165x8
Week 5: 155x8,165x8,180x8
Week 6: 145x8,155x8,165x8
Week 7: 155x8,165x8,180x8
Week 8: 165x8,180x8,190x8
Week 9: 155x8,165x8,180x8
Week 10: 165x8,180x8,190x8
Week 11: 180x8,190x8,200x8
Week 12: 165x8,180x8,190x8
Week 13: 180x8,190x8,200x8

_____________________________________________
Wednesday or Thursday

Incline Bench
Week 1: 185x5,205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5********
Week 2: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5
Week 3: 185x5,205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5
Week 4: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5
Week 5: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 6: 205x5,220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5
Week 7: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 8: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 9: 220x5,235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5
Week 10: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 11: 250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5,315x5
Week 12: 235x5,250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5
Week 13: 250x5,265x5,280x5,300x5,315x5


Dips x3-4sets

RhodeHouse
09-11-2007, 10:26 AM
WAY TOO much work. Where's the back work? Benching doesn't make your bench better. Go to EliteFTS and read Jim Wendler's article, "Bench Like A Stripper", and follow it.

There's your answer

Guido
09-11-2007, 10:55 AM
Why are you only doing triples on bench, and sets of 5 on close grips, and sets of 8 on shoulder press?

If you want to get better at lifting a 1RM weight, you should work your way up to doing so by graduating from higher to lower reps over the course of your training program. I might start with 4-5 rep sets the first few weeks, then to sets of triples for the next few, then sets of doubles, and finally go for a one-rep max.

Leeman
09-11-2007, 01:38 PM
WAY TOO much work. Where's the back work? Benching doesn't make your bench better. Go to EliteFTS and read Jim Wendler's article, "Bench Like A Stripper", and follow it.

There's your answer

Yeah I read that before, If I remember correctly its about form. I have a basic powerlifting set up, good arch, tucked shoulder blades bring it down to my sternum.

I was working on my setup today and realized what people ment when they were talking about a tight setup and to squeeze the bar as hard as posible. Weights were controlled and went up faster than normal.



I dont do back on the same day as I bench because like you said, thats alot of work. I have been slacking on it latley just doing 1-3 sets of chins and a couple sets of dumbell rows but I plan on picking up the pace so to help my bench.

Leeman
09-11-2007, 01:51 PM
Why are you only doing triples on bench, and sets of 5 on close grips, and sets of 8 on shoulder press?

If you want to get better at lifting a 1RM weight, you should work your way up to doing so by graduating from higher to lower reps over the course of your training program. I might start with 4-5 rep sets the first few weeks, then to sets of triples for the next few, then sets of doubles, and finally go for a one-rep max.

Im useing 5x5 on close grip because I always liked 5x5 and there was a 5x5 generator I found so I put it so use. Im useing 3x8 on shoulder press because 10 reps is a little high for my goals and I dont want to do to many sets.

I actualy got the 8x3 bench thing from a bench program supposedly writen by Ryan Kennelly. I read later that the program might be co-writen with Ryan kennelly so Im not sure. I also saw Scott mendelson talking about useing a program almost identicle to this. He was adviseing this to new lifters of course I doubt he uses it.



Basicly Im useing those sets and reps because I feel like I can hit everything I wrote down, and even if the bench program is complete **** if I hit those assistance lifts I know my bench will be up 20-30lbs


EDIT: but yeah your right, it would be smart to work up to a single over a period of weeks if I was looking to get a 405 max, I just doubt Il be able to do that in the next 10 weeks or so, what Im doing right now is just trying to fill the 40lb gap, I will probably do something like your talking about when I get ready to go for 405. Unless I just know I already have it in me, in wich case I wont even bother with programs Il just hit it.

RhodeHouse
09-12-2007, 08:31 AM
I can't follow your responses.

The bench like a stripper article is about training for a raw bench.

If you are gonna follow this plan, then follow it thru to the end. Don't get rid of it in 10 weeks or whatever you said. Follow it. I would recommend at least 6 months. For some reason, people like to change for the sake of change. If you're gonna dump the plan, even if it goes well, why do it at all? That shows me you don't have confidence in it.

With all that pressing, you need to do 2x as much back work. ie: 10 sets of pressing = 20 sets of rowing

Mike G
09-12-2007, 08:54 AM
Yeah I read that before, If I remember correctly its about form. I have a basic powerlifting set up, good arch, tucked shoulder blades bring it down to my sternum.

I was working on my setup today and realized what people ment when they were talking about a tight setup and to squeeze the bar as hard as posible. Weights were controlled and went up faster than normal.



I dont do back on the same day as I bench because like you said, thats alot of work. I have been slacking on it latley just doing 1-3 sets of chins and a couple sets of dumbell rows but I plan on picking up the pace so to help my bench.


Reread the article, it's not about set up. Like Rhodes said, it's about raw benching. It's a very good article and gives a good layout. If you don't like it, don't do it, but it's worth the ten minutes it will take to read it.

Leeman
09-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Reread the article, it's not about set up. Like Rhodes said, it's about raw benching. It's a very good article and gives a good layout. If you don't like it, don't do it, but it's worth the ten minutes it will take to read it.

Just read it again, it is definatley a good article. I have done westside before and didnt care for it much. But I have never realy tryed 5x5 or a program like I am doing right now.

So I just figured I would give it a shot.

Magilla
09-12-2007, 03:09 PM
I was in the same postion about a 18 months ago. 380# was my max. What did I add

Heavy Barbll Rows, heavy tricep work, and deads.

I hate 3x3's..not enough work for me. Good luck

Leeman
09-12-2007, 03:17 PM
I can't follow your responses.

The bench like a stripper article is about training for a raw bench.

If you are gonna follow this plan, then follow it thru to the end. Don't get rid of it in 10 weeks or whatever you said. Follow it. I would recommend at least 6 months. For some reason, people like to change for the sake of change. If you're gonna dump the plan, even if it goes well, why do it at all? That shows me you don't have confidence in it.

With all that pressing, you need to do 2x as much back work. ie: 10 sets of pressing = 20 sets of rowing

If the program worked I planned on giveing it another run but throwing in dumbell benching instead of incline or something like that.

I only have 4 months until weight lifting starts for my school and then I will have to max out in competition every other week or something like that so I was going to try to have a program that would work along with that.

I will start doing 20 sets of back 2 times a week if you feel that will help. That and I will cut down on some of the bench sets because it is alot.

Its not that I dont have confidence in the program I just feel like I could make it better, and Im prety sure I can with the advice from you guys and some trial and error.

Thanks for the advice I realy do appreciate.

Leeman
09-12-2007, 03:21 PM
I was in the same postion about a 18 months ago. 380# was my max. What did I add

Heavy Barbll Rows, heavy tricep work, and deads.

I hate 3x3's..not enough work for me. Good luck


You guys are all very confident in back work helping your bench so it must be a prety helpful, this is good because I dont do hardly any back work just a couple sets here and there so this alone should help alot.

Thanks.

Con
09-12-2007, 03:49 PM
How does heavy back work contribute to a better bench?

deeder
09-12-2007, 04:54 PM
How does heavy back work contribute to a better bench?

I think it was in Bako's journal that I read this (not written by Bako)....


Put your arms by your sides in the position you would be in at the bottom of a bench now flare your lats... What happens? Arms come forward.

There was more to it... Go check Bako's journal

Bako Lifter
09-12-2007, 04:58 PM
You need to have strong lats if you want a big bench; thereís no way around this. To illustrate the point, try this: In a standing position, hold your arms in the bottom bench position; now flare your lats. What happened? Your arms moved forward. This is part of the same movement that happens when you bench press. The trick to getting and keeping your lats in the movement starts long before the bar hits the chest. It begins with the set up at the beginning of the lift, before the bar leaves the rack. Once again you need to have the proper tight position. Now you want to tuck your elbows some and pull the bar out of the rack. You do not press out of the rack! When you press out, your shoulders come apart and your lats arenít tight. Almost 100% of the time this will happen because of the type of bench youíre using. Many benches today have J-hooks or uprights that are too damn deep. You have no choice but to press it out. In this case you have two options. First, find another bench. Many times the power rack will work out to be the best option. The j-hooks arenít as deep and all you have to do is drag a bench over. The second option is to take a liftoff from a training partner. I personally donít like the liftoff option because itís still hard to keep the lats tight, but if thereís no other choice, then by all means use it. This is actually one of the reasons why a liftoff helps you lift more weight. If youíre pressing the bar in a straight line from the lower chest then there should be no way youíll ever hit the uprights. So donít be afraid to get under the bar more from the start. Many coaches will tell you to line the bar up with your eyes. I feel it should be lined up with your nose or chin. This way you donít need so much shoulder rotation to get the bar out. Now on to the lat work. Your program should have the right kind of lat work. You want to use those movements that work on the same plane as the bench press. This means any type of row. There are several to choose from, so pick based on the ones youíre the worst at. You should be training your lats two to four times a weak, but you donít need a full-blown lat workout as the bodybuilders do. One movement for four to five sets should do the trick, but you do need to do them many times a week to try to maintain some type of balance.

-Dave Tate

bill
09-12-2007, 08:34 PM
You guys are all very confident in back work helping your bench so it must be a prety helpful, this is good because I dont do hardly any back work just a couple sets here and there so this alone should help alot.

Thanks.

Just getting the upper back and lats strong is not enough though. In my experience it's learning how to stay tight and use the lats. Anyone else feel like this?

RhodeHouse
09-12-2007, 10:02 PM
Bill, I agree. Here's a good tip to knowing if you're staying tight. How long can you stay in your set-up before you cramp up? Can you breathe normally? If you can breathe normally and your back doesn't want to cramp after 5-10 seconds - you're not tight enough. Your bench set-up is THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE POSITION YOU'LL EVER BE IN! Worse than being sodomized with a splintered baseball bat. Yes, it's that bad, I imagine.

The reason i recommend twice as much work for your back is because it's always a weak point for new lifters (less than 10 years of lifting) because all you really train are the beach muscles. No one trains what they can't see in the mirror. Doubling up the sets is to make up for years of bad training. I do about 20-25 sets of upper back/rear delt work per week. i also squat and DL, so that hits the upper back hard as well.

One heavy pressing movement (1-3 reps) per week.

bill
09-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Thanks RhodeHouse, Good info and a your humor is always great.

Leeman
09-13-2007, 10:15 AM
Bill, I agree. Here's a good tip to knowing if you're staying tight. How long can you stay in your set-up before you cramp up? Can you breathe normally? If you can breathe normally and your back doesn't want to cramp after 5-10 seconds - you're not tight enough. Your bench set-up is THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE POSITION YOU'LL EVER BE IN! Worse than being sodomized with a splintered baseball bat. Yes, it's that bad, I imagine.

The reason i recommend twice as much work for your back is because it's always a weak point for new lifters (less than 10 years of lifting) because all you really train are the beach muscles. No one trains what they can't see in the mirror. Doubling up the sets is to make up for years of bad training. I do about 20-25 sets of upper back/rear delt work per week. i also squat and DL, so that hits the upper back hard as well.

One heavy pressing movement (1-3 reps) per week.

This realy puts my form into perspective, I am usualy prety comfortable when I bench. Looks like I will have to work on my formjust as hard as I work on my bench.

I will definatley try my best to do this next bench workout.

Leeman
09-13-2007, 10:16 AM
You need to have strong lats if you want a big bench; thereís no way around this. To illustrate the point, try this: In a standing position, hold your arms in the bottom bench position; now flare your lats. What happened? Your arms moved forward. This is part of the same movement that happens when you bench press. The trick to getting and keeping your lats in the movement starts long before the bar hits the chest. It begins with the set up at the beginning of the lift, before the bar leaves the rack. Once again you need to have the proper tight position. Now you want to tuck your elbows some and pull the bar out of the rack. You do not press out of the rack! When you press out, your shoulders come apart and your lats arenít tight. Almost 100% of the time this will happen because of the type of bench youíre using. Many benches today have J-hooks or uprights that are too damn deep. You have no choice but to press it out. In this case you have two options. First, find another bench. Many times the power rack will work out to be the best option. The j-hooks arenít as deep and all you have to do is drag a bench over. The second option is to take a liftoff from a training partner. I personally donít like the liftoff option because itís still hard to keep the lats tight, but if thereís no other choice, then by all means use it. This is actually one of the reasons why a liftoff helps you lift more weight. If youíre pressing the bar in a straight line from the lower chest then there should be no way youíll ever hit the uprights. So donít be afraid to get under the bar more from the start. Many coaches will tell you to line the bar up with your eyes. I feel it should be lined up with your nose or chin. This way you donít need so much shoulder rotation to get the bar out. Now on to the lat work. Your program should have the right kind of lat work. You want to use those movements that work on the same plane as the bench press. This means any type of row. There are several to choose from, so pick based on the ones youíre the worst at. You should be training your lats two to four times a weak, but you donít need a full-blown lat workout as the bodybuilders do. One movement for four to five sets should do the trick, but you do need to do them many times a week to try to maintain some type of balance.

-Dave Tate

Thanks for the post man, I was always a little confused about this.

RhodeHouse
09-13-2007, 01:52 PM
Now start benching Brother! SFW!

vdizenzo
09-13-2007, 01:58 PM
Don't heavy bench every week. I hit my 600 by alternating my max effort bench every week on a four week rotation. I think my exercises were flat, incline, floor presses, and board presses. I used to train with Glen Chabot who benched 675 raw and he only flat benched about once a month.

Training bench is not going to get your bench stronger. Hit heavy lats, triceps, shoulders, and get good core work in. Focus on setup and technique. By the way, it took me 2 years to go from 575 in comp to 600 so 365-405 won't necessarily happen in ten weeks.

Here are a few of my unequipped gym lifts from my last training cycle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJrWunszps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owfi1Jb7aFw

Here was the end result:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LjtMZRTZ0

Guido
09-13-2007, 03:21 PM
Nice stuff vdizenzo!

RhodeHouse
09-13-2007, 06:09 PM
Who is the striking young lad that is lifting off for you? He's cute!

Leeman
09-13-2007, 09:04 PM
Don't heavy bench every week. I hit my 600 by alternating my max effort bench every week on a four week rotation. I think my exercises were flat, incline, floor presses, and board presses. I used to train with Glen Chabot who benched 675 raw and he only flat benched about once a month.

Training bench is not going to get your bench stronger. Hit heavy lats, triceps, shoulders, and get good core work in. Focus on setup and technique. By the way, it took me 2 years to go from 575 in comp to 600 so 365-405 won't necessarily happen in ten weeks.

Here are a few of my unequipped gym lifts from my last training cycle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJrWunszps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owfi1Jb7aFw

Here was the end result:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LjtMZRTZ0

Firstly, Honored to have you take time out of your day to help me out, I must have watched each video 20 times before.

And 2 years from 575 to 600 is fast as hell, considering 99.9999999% of lifters will never bench 500 even if they trained thier whole life...

I dont realy bench heavy until I get to around 300+lbs so I will cut out some of the 8x3 weeks and put in some dumbell bench, floor presses or board work weeks, in between the heavy bench weeks

And Il add in another tricep excercise on my assistance days because they do seem to be a weakness for me. And I have never seen a great bencher who dosent give this advice.

RhodeHouse
09-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Dude, Vincent doesn't do anything else. He's got time. Clearly, so do I.

Leeman
09-14-2007, 05:38 AM
Dude, Vincent doesn't do anything else. He's got time. Clearly, so do I.

lol, still tho I have seen his videos like 1000 times so it was just cool to have him giveing me advice.

Thanks to everyone for thier help by the way.:bow: