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tr00warrior
05-10-2008, 02:29 PM
Over a period of 3 and a half months, I got down to 242lbs from 260. 4-5 days of the week, I'd be on the diet, keeping my carb intake under 50. What I would eat mainly consisted of chicken breasts, salad, lots of cheese, red meat, fat free milk, bran flake cereal, water, occasional whole grain bread, and that's pretty much it. I'd have 1-2 days of cheating afterwards... sometimes 3 :hide:. Pasta, pizza, cheeseburgers, cookies, milkshakes, all that ****.
I cut out all breads (except on cheat days when I eat pizza), cereal, and milk a month ago. I didn't keep track of my calories, but I'm pretty sure they didn't go above 2,500-3,000.

Anyway, for what seems like a month now I've been having a battle getting under the 240lbs mark. My weight will "yo-yo" from 242, up to 245, then up to 248 on cheat days, back down to 245, then finally back at 242 after I go back on the diet again.

I don't lift weights because I couldn't afford a membership, but I just got a new job, so I will be getting one soon. All I mainly do is cardo (walking/jogging/running 30-45 minutes. This past month I've knocked it up to a full hour) 5 days a week, with push-ups, some ab exercises, shrugs, and some other stuff thrown in on any given day.

So what's the deal? Do I have to be 100% consistent and dedicated? I know I need to start watching my calories, and I know I definitely need to get rid of the 3 days of cheating. But how often should I cheat? And does the Keto diet go hand-in-hand with weightlifting? I was wondering if I should just wait a week from now until I get my first paycheck and restart it "perfectly" when I hit the iron.

What say you?

markdk86
05-10-2008, 03:35 PM
Do I have to be 100% consistent and dedicated?

No, not unless you want to stay fat. Learn some self-discipline. It is a cheat MEAL. Not a cheat DAY, or half a cheat ****ing week. One cheat meal a week.

Ketosis diets are fine, but don't lift too intensely since you won't be eating to many calories. And also, hate to tell you, if you are on a ketosis diet eating 3,000 calories a day.... you aren't doing it correctly.

Progress
05-10-2008, 05:24 PM
You don't lift weights. You don't accurately track calories and you have cheat days.

Fix those things and if you don't drop below 240 then come back.

Slim Schaedle
05-10-2008, 07:35 PM
And also, hate to tell you, if you are on a ketosis diet eating 3,000 calories a day.... you aren't doing it correctly.

I'm trying to understand why you suggest not lifting intensely, and why 3,000 calories would indicate improper dieting?

markdk86
05-10-2008, 08:43 PM
Because a proper ketosis diet, if done correctly is extremely low on calories and carbohydrates, therefore the goal is to maintain lean body mass by lifting weights. If you want to feel like **** all day, then sure, you can lift with all the intensity you want, but it isn't necessary for LBM preservation. Do what is needed. Busting my ass on suck low calories isn't my cup of tea.

As for the comment on 3000 calories a day, that was towards the OP saying he is on a ketosis diet, yes he is "pretty sure they didn't go above 2,500-3,000". This isn't factoring the other thousands of calories he probably consumes over his 1-3 day binge which equates to no weight loss period.

bjohnso
05-10-2008, 08:53 PM
****. He lost 18lbs in 14 weeks, that's pretty good.

OP, you should probably start tracking your calories to see where you stand.

Slim Schaedle
05-10-2008, 09:38 PM
Because a proper ketosis diet, if done correctly is extremely low on calories and carbohydrates, therefore the goal is to maintain lean body mass by lifting weights. If you want to feel like **** all day, then sure, you can lift with all the intensity you want, but it isn't necessary for LBM preservation. Do what is needed. Busting my ass on suck low calories isn't my cup of tea.

As for the comment on 3000 calories a day, that was towards the OP saying he is on a ketosis diet, yes he is "pretty sure they didn't go above 2,500-3,000". This isn't factoring the other thousands of calories he probably consumes over his 1-3 day binge which equates to no weight loss period.

Ketosis just means you are utilizing ketone bodies for fuel, as opposed to glucose.


Are you confusing it with PSMF diets?


There no reason not to bust one's ass (within the limits of recovery) while employing a diet of caloric deficit, or very low in carbs.


Obviously the OP needs to track his stuff.


But, if his maintenance is 5,000+ , what is wrong with 3,000 calories followed by a massive controlled refeed made up of good foods? (which is the basic concept of UD2)

markdk86
05-10-2008, 10:42 PM
Lol, I know what ketosis is, no worries about that. To put it simple, mostly he is eating his protein and fat sources, but for a guy, who only does cardio vascular exercise and virtually no type of physical exertion, 3000 is high.

Realize, this is assuming from the almost non-existent information regarding his height, LBM, etc. With the little provided I don't see how the hell his maintenance calories can even be 5,000+.

Slim Schaedle
05-10-2008, 11:02 PM
Realize, this is assuming from the almost non-existent information regarding his height, LBM, etc. With the little provided I don't see how the hell his maintenance calories can even be 5,000+.

Right, I agree.

But like you just said, we don't know what we (and he) need to know.


So, we also can't say that 3,000 cals is too high for a ketosis/cutting/his personal diet.

That doesn't really make sense anyway, because I am not aware of there being a limit to calories when dieting in ketosis.


(5,000 was purely an example I used)

markdk86
05-10-2008, 11:47 PM
Yes, thats one of the things I'm curious about ketosis diets. I'm sure there has to be some type of a limit, most likely moderate fat levels that are similar to a normal diet.

Be_Rye
05-10-2008, 11:51 PM
****. He lost 18lbs in 14 weeks, that's pretty good.

OP, you should probably start tracking your calories to see where you stand.

Thats not good... i used to be 240 and i was fat... now im 197. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks.

markdk86
05-11-2008, 12:36 AM
Thats not good... i used to be 240 and i was fat... now im 197. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks.

Umm, yeah.... there is a thing called water and glycogen, not to mention other things that contribute to large weight loss in 1-2 weeks.

bjohnso
05-11-2008, 08:02 AM
Thats not good... i used to be 240 and i was fat... now im 197. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks.

Is this a joke?

Deathwish
05-12-2008, 12:47 AM
You should have a cheat day. The other 6 days of the week you should stick to your diet strictly with no cheating AT ALL.

You should be writing down every little thing you put into your mouth to keep track and to see where you can improve.

Jordanbcool
05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
No you should not have a cheat day. A cheat DAY is a terrible idea. Often people go absolutley crazy that day and eat as much as 2-3k+ what they actually need. You could easily ruin an entire week of dieting eating that much in one day. Instead it should be a cheat meal, and even then it should be kept in moderation and should still include leans meats, whole grains etc. (possibly a small amount of actual junk food). Look if you aren't serious about losing weight then don't waste your time. It takes a certain amount of self discipline to lose weight, and if you don't have it no amount of advice will fix that.

Regardless. You are not on a ketosis diet in the first place. You are cheating for half the week which is not a diet at all. The fact that you also include things like bran flakes and milk although they are healthy to my knowledge are not part of a ketogenic diet because they contain too much digestable carbohydrate. If you want to do a more moderate diet then thats ok, but to call that a ketogenic diet is just not true.

Guido
05-12-2008, 02:29 PM
Thats not good... i used to be 240 and i was fat... now im 197. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks.Uh yeah. If you are losing that much that quick, suffice it to say that much of that was water weight, my friend.

tr00warrior
05-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Yeah, sorry I forgot to clarify some things. I did say I got rid of the milk, breads, and cereal. And I didn't really think it mattered where you got your carbs from, as long as it's under 50. From the sites I've read on Ketosis, they didn't really say anything about keeping calories under 3000, either. But just for the record I meant to say that I'm pretty sure they didn't reach near 3000, I meant to say my intake probably only went slightly over 2500.

All I eat now is meat, chicken breasts, salad, cheese, and that's pretty much it. Usually half a gallon or full gallon of water a day. My carb intake is only going to be from fiber and lettuce.

I'm 6 feet tall. My estimated LBM is like 185lbs I believe.

Question: for my once a week cheat meal, does it matter how many calories I consume? Or I should I watch those as well? I'm assuming nothing over 3-4k?

Jordanbcool
05-12-2008, 08:38 PM
Yeah, sorry I forgot to clarify some things. I did say I got rid of the milk, breads, and cereal. And I didn't really think it mattered where you got your carbs from, as long as it's under 50. From the sites I've read on Ketosis, they didn't really say anything about keeping calories under 3000, either. But just for the record I meant to say that I'm pretty sure they didn't reach near 3000, I meant to say my intake probably only went slightly over 2500.

All I eat now is meat, chicken breasts, salad, cheese, and that's pretty much it. Usually half a gallon or full gallon of water a day. My carb intake is only going to be from fiber and lettuce.

I'm 6 feet tall. My estimated LBM is like 185lbs I believe.

Question: for my once a week cheat meal, does it matter how many calories I consume? Or I should I watch those as well? I'm assuming nothing over 3-4k?

Now you're starting on a better track. The main thing you need to do is just track your total calories and exactly what you eat on a daily basis. No you think or you guess, you should know exactly what you eat and what macronutrients you are getting your calories from.

First off. To eat 3-4k in ONE meal is not only next to impossible but if done is also pretty disgusting. I don't know of anyone that can eat that much food in one sitting unless they go to a buffet. I'm not going to give you an exact number. Pick a meal that is sensible in size and what it contains. For example; Have a 12-16oz soda or glass of milk, a lean 8oz steak or chicken breast, a baked potato with light sour cream and pepper, a side of steamed veggies (carrots, peas, corn etc.). For dessert you could have a slice of cheesecake, an ice cream cone, a small sundae etc. You get the idea. Basically just choose sensible healthy foods that are good tasting and packed with nutrients. And its perfectly ok to eat some junk food at the end, just eat it slowly and enjoy it.

polksalet
05-13-2008, 09:43 AM
my blogette

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=245430

polksalet
05-13-2008, 12:10 PM
I typically eat .7-.11k per day with less than 20 carbs and most of the time less than 10. On my cheat days I have an atkins bar with an artificially sweetened drink. I have 24 in 2 weeks and 6 days. I plan on being 200 (goal) in six weeks or less.

I have also defeated constipation :(

WBBIRL
05-13-2008, 03:00 PM
What you did on the weekend kept you out of (or from ever going into) ketosis.

You have to consistantly keep those carbs low (like 40g or less) and when you have your cheat MEAL (not cheat half a week) you up the fats and proteins just a little bit. The day you pick to eat that cheat meal should only be about 700 calories higher then the rest of the days.

Lifting weights will help, but don't train very hard unless you like feeling like balls... train moderately.

Keep protein high (200g), water high.

RhodeHouse
05-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Losing weight is easy. Gaining weight is hard work. Get off your ass and do some real cardio work. You also need to get your butt in the gym and lift some weights.

Here's the real secret to losing weight. You don't NEED to count calories. You don't NEED to be on a ketosis diet. You NEED to have 1 cheat meal. In that meal, as long as you don't stop eating, it's still one meal. Eat whatever you want. Once you stop eating, the meal is over and you are back on the diet - PERIOD> 3 Days of cheating should be the dead giveaway that you're hurting your progress. Put down the fork and take a walk. It's really that simple.

I think dieting is a huge waste of time and energy. You're eatimng little to no carbs for 4-5 days, then you bloat up on junk food. What happens when you go back to eating a "normal" amount of carbs everyday? You'll blow right back up to 260 and probably gain even more.

Learn to eat in moderation. Use the size of your fist as a guide for portions. Any more than that, and you're eating too much. SO, a piece of steak the size of your palm, mashed potatoes the size of your fist, etc... Stay away from sugar and processed food. Lift some weights, go for a walk, and the problem will be solved.

JSully
05-13-2008, 05:27 PM
Losing weight is easy. Gaining weight is hard work. Get off your ass and do some real cardio work. You also need to get your butt in the gym and lift some weights.

Here's the real secret to losing weight. You don't NEED to count calories. You don't NEED to be on a ketosis diet. You NEED to have 1 cheat meal. In that meal, as long as you don't stop eating, it's still one meal. Eat whatever you want. Once you stop eating, the meal is over and you are back on the diet - PERIOD> 3 Days of cheating should be the dead giveaway that you're hurting your progress. Put down the fork and take a walk. It's really that simple.

I think dieting is a huge waste of time and energy. You're eatimng little to no carbs for 4-5 days, then you bloat up on junk food. What happens when you go back to eating a "normal" amount of carbs everyday? You'll blow right back up to 260 and probably gain even more.

Learn to eat in moderation. Use the size of your fist as a guide for portions. Any more than that, and you're eating too much. SO, a piece of steak the size of your palm, mashed potatoes the size of your fist, etc... Stay away from sugar and processed food. Lift some weights, go for a walk, and the problem will be solved.

Keep in mind, everyone is different. Just because it's easy for you to lose weight doesn't mean it's easy for others. It's difficult for you to gain weight? I can gain 20lbs in 2 weeks. But I NEED to count calories and keep them to a minimum to lose weight. I've lost 15lbs in 7 weeks now while gaining 1lb LBM. If I weren't countin cals I would have made little to no progress..

WillNoble
05-13-2008, 05:28 PM
Losing weight is easy. Gaining weight is hard work. Get off your ass and do some real cardio work. You also need to get your butt in the gym and lift some weights.

Here's the real secret to losing weight. You don't NEED to count calories. You don't NEED to be on a ketosis diet. You NEED to have 1 cheat meal. In that meal, as long as you don't stop eating, it's still one meal. Eat whatever you want. Once you stop eating, the meal is over and you are back on the diet - PERIOD> 3 Days of cheating should be the dead giveaway that you're hurting your progress. Put down the fork and take a walk. It's really that simple.

I think dieting is a huge waste of time and energy. You're eatimng little to no carbs for 4-5 days, then you bloat up on junk food. What happens when you go back to eating a "normal" amount of carbs everyday? You'll blow right back up to 260 and probably gain even more.

Learn to eat in moderation. Use the size of your fist as a guide for portions. Any more than that, and you're eating too much. SO, a piece of steak the size of your palm, mashed potatoes the size of your fist, etc... Stay away from sugar and processed food. Lift some weights, go for a walk, and the problem will be solved.



You sir are correct,


have lost 49lbs. so far doing this very thing.

tr00warrior
05-13-2008, 06:26 PM
Haha, I guess I massively over-estimated the amount of calories in junk food.

I'd figure a medium pizza would at least have 2,000 calories, wouldn't you say? A burger, fries and coke/milkshake from a fast food joint would probably amount to eat least 500-1000 calories, depending on the size.

My ideal cheat meal would be a medium pizza and some dessert thing with water, and that's it. Never cared for soda that much.

polksalet
05-13-2008, 06:43 PM
Haha, I guess I massively over-estimated the amount of calories in junk food.

I'd figure a medium pizza would at least have 2,000 calories, wouldn't you say? A burger, fries and coke/milkshake from a fast food joint would probably amount to eat least 500-1000 calories, depending on the size.

My ideal cheat meal would be a medium pizza and some dessert thing with water, and that's it. Never cared for soda that much.

You can eat 50 pounds of grilled chicken, tilapia, as salmon every day. If you stray to the carbs it ruins everything you have worked for.

tr00warrior
05-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Um, I think going out and jogging for an hour 5 days a week would qualify as "getting off my ass." 6 months ago I couldn't even jog for 15 seconds, now I'm sprinting. (Which reminds me: this is a little off topic, but should I do cardo in the morning before eating, or does it not matter?)

My goal is to eventually drop drunk food altogether. I definitely don't think I'll go back to "that way." Especially if I can dip under 200lbs while on this "diet." Hell, if this diet works, I'll make it my way of life. Or at least modify it a little so I can lift hard. But eating this junk food **** pretty much my whole life, I'm going to get cravings for it here and there. Gotta have a piece of pie here, some pizza there, cookies, oreo shake. I'm sure everyone who has ever gone on a cut with a good amount of weight knows how it is.

I really would like to rub it out of my way of life and never eat bad again, or at least hardly ever eat it again. Ultimately, I think I'm getting there.

The reason why I chose this diet was because I thought it was pretty simple. Eat clean for a 6 days a week, then pig out on whatever you want the 7th day to load up on carbs, to "trick" your body into burning fat. I thought this was the whole point of Ketosis? Unless I'm mixing up diets or something?

getb1g
05-13-2008, 07:42 PM
Pretty funny how he says I have 1 cheat day. Then 1-2. Then 3. LOL

polksalet
05-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Um, I think going out and jogging for an hour 5 days a week would qualify as "getting off my ass." 6 months ago I couldn't even jog for 15 seconds, now I'm sprinting. (Which reminds me: this is a little off topic, but should I do cardo in the morning before eating, or does it not matter?)

My goal is to eventually drop drunk food altogether. I definitely don't think I'll go back to "that way." Especially if I can dip under 200lbs while on this "diet." Hell, if this diet works, I'll make it my way of life. Or at least modify it a little so I can lift hard. But eating this junk food **** pretty much my whole life, I'm going to get cravings for it here and there. Gotta have a piece of pie here, some pizza there, cookies, oreo shake. I'm sure everyone who has ever gone on a cut with a good amount of weight knows how it is.

I really would like to rub it out of my way of life and never eat bad again, or at least hardly ever eat it again. Ultimately, I think I'm getting there.

The reason why I chose this diet was because I thought it was pretty simple. Eat clean for a 6 days a week, then pig out on whatever you want the 7th day to load up on carbs, to "trick" your body into burning fat. I thought this was the whole point of Ketosis? Unless I'm mixing up diets or something?

Yeah you've got it jacked up for sure. You need to low card it (-20) for 6 weeks and measure your progress. Atkins is ok but I would cut out the fatty stuff and stick to lean meats and no butter with lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and almonds. Also be sure and take a good multivitamin. You will be dropping fat like a madman.

Jordanbcool
05-13-2008, 08:39 PM
It seems like you have a very poor attitude in general. It does not seem like you're taking dieting seriously. Cutting out junk food is hard but not impossible, and like I said you can have a cheat meal once a week with some of the junk food you like and still lose a ton of weight. Instead you keep talking about eating an entire medium pizza with water?! Yea, you're really saving a ton of calories by drinking water instead of soda. This is why people don't lose weight. They say "I'll cut out soda" but then they eat exactly how you describe. Just a ridiculous amount of junk food and then they wonder why they don't lose weight. You aren't going to make very good progress with cheating like you're already talking about. Look if you don't want to cut out junk food or keep it in moderation then thats ok. Just be fat, and be happy. Stop talking about losing weight and just do it. There is nothing wrong with being fat if thats what you want. But I hate it when people complain about not losing weight and then eat massive amounts of crap. An entire medium pizza in one meal, cheat meal or not is NOT a diet and it will not work it simply won't. Thats all I have to say about that.

polksalet
05-13-2008, 08:45 PM
People always say they have a low metabolism of whatever. I have a great metabolism. If I did not I would weigh 700 pounds. I laugh at a medium pizza. WHen I go to CiCi's I usually eat around 30 slices with a couple of salads and a dozen or so cinnamon rolls. I once at 55 pieces in a pizza eating competition one time and could have got 30 more if I would have need to. I laugh at a medium pizza lol. I say this to show that even though I have a pimp diet and good self control, not everyone can lose a pound a day like me. I guarantee my pancreas is ripped. I bet it could run a blue whale if need be.

markdk86
05-13-2008, 09:06 PM
People always say they have a low metabolism of whatever. I have a great metabolism. If I did not I would weigh 700 pounds. I laugh at a medium pizza. WHen I go to CiCi's I usually eat around 30 slices with a couple of salads and a dozen or so cinnamon rolls. I once at 55 pieces in a pizza eating competition one time and could have got 30 more if I would have need to. I laugh at a medium pizza lol. I say this to show that even though I have a pimp diet and good self control, not everyone can lose a pound a day like me. I guarantee my pancreas is ripped. I bet it could run a blue whale if need be.

http://www.darkworks.org/uranidiot.jpg

WBBIRL
05-13-2008, 10:37 PM
People always say they have a low metabolism of whatever. I have a great metabolism. If I did not I would weigh 700 pounds. I laugh at a medium pizza. WHen I go to CiCi's I usually eat around 30 slices with a couple of salads and a dozen or so cinnamon rolls. I once at 55 pieces in a pizza eating competition one time and could have got 30 more if I would have need to. I laugh at a medium pizza lol. I say this to show that even though I have a pimp diet and good self control, not everyone can lose a pound a day like me. I guarantee my pancreas is ripped. I bet it could run a blue whale if need be.

There are two kinds of people, those who have to force or remind themsleves to eat (people who lose weight easily) or those who have to be reminded to stop eating (people who gain weight easily).

Jordanbcool
05-13-2008, 10:46 PM
http://www.darkworks.org/uranidiot.jpg

Yes! What an awesome post!! Exactly what I was thinking!!!!! :hello:

Slim Schaedle
05-13-2008, 11:17 PM
An entire medium pizza in one meal, cheat meal or not is NOT a diet and it will not work it simply won't. Thats all I have to say about that.

Bull****.



Some of you are taking this completely overboard.


First of all, ketosis is waaaay overated. 50-100 grams of carbs will yield the same results in most cases. And with carbs that low, it doesn't matter one bit where they come from.


Second, refeeds and cheat DAYS are good for you. Yeah, you want to keep the fat somewhat low if your carbs are jacked up. But one ****in day is not going to make or break that much progress.

Look at the caloric content and amount over the course of the week.

Is the average intake exceeding maintenance? At maintenance? Under maintenance?

I undereat by over 8,000 calories in the course of 3.5 days.

Then, the next 3 days I overeat by at least 2,000-3,000 calories EACH day.


Guess what. I am still losing fat, gaining muscle, and getting stronger.

Yes, there are specific techniques and concepts that should be followed with any diet, especially the type that I just outlined.

Deathwish
05-14-2008, 03:32 AM
No you should not have a cheat day. A cheat DAY is a terrible idea. Often people go absolutley crazy that day and eat as much as 2-3k+ what they actually need. You could easily ruin an entire week of dieting eating that much in one day. Instead it should be a cheat meal, and even then it should be kept in moderation and should still include leans meats, whole grains etc. (possibly a small amount of actual junk food). Look if you aren't serious about losing weight then don't waste your time. It takes a certain amount of self discipline to lose weight, and if you don't have it no amount of advice will fix that.

I don't know...I mean yeah you're right, you shouldn't go all out. But having 3 normal meals of whatever you want helps with santiy for those of us that aren't used to strict diets/routines



First off. To eat 3-4k in ONE meal is not only next to impossible but if done is also pretty disgusting.

lol why this may be true, I'm pretty sure I've hit 3k in one meal when I had 32 oz of steak during a dinner in Vegas

Deathwish
05-14-2008, 03:36 AM
There are two kinds of people, those who have to force or remind themsleves to eat (people who lose weight easily) or those who have to be reminded to stop eating (people who gain weight easily).

That's a good way to put it...

polksalet
05-14-2008, 07:32 AM
http://www.darkworks.org/uranidiot.jpg



Yeah, I admit I am an idiot. I love to eat. It is something I have struggled with most of my life. But like I said I am not as fat as I should be. I have made the decision to drop a bunch, drop it fairly quickly, and keep it off. That is not a poor decision.

polksalet
05-14-2008, 07:36 AM
Bull****.



Some of you are taking this completely overboard.


First of all, ketosis is waaaay overated. 50-100 grams of carbs will yield the same results in most cases. And with carbs that low, it doesn't matter one bit where they come from.


Second, refeeds and cheat DAYS are good for you. Yeah, you want to keep the fat somewhat low if your carbs are jacked up. But one ****in day is not going to make or break that much progress.

Look at the caloric content and amount over the course of the week.

Is the average intake exceeding maintenance? At maintenance? Under maintenance?

I undereat by over 8,000 calories in the course of 3.5 days.

Then, the next 3 days I overeat by at least 2,000-3,000 calories EACH day.


Guess what. I am still losing fat, gaining muscle, and getting stronger.

Yes, there are specific techniques and concepts that should be followed with any diet, especially the type that I just outlined.

I also agree that ketosis is way overrated. However it is next to impossible to put enough calories in your body to not lose weight on a ketogenic diet. Therefore even if you are in the minority that have difficulty getting into ketosis you will still lose weight. If you make your diet low fat and low preservative by not gorging on bacon etc. and making your broccoli, cauliflower, and other good stuff it is a win/win situation. Am I right?

polksalet
05-14-2008, 07:38 AM
There are two kinds of people, those who have to force or remind themsleves to eat (people who lose weight easily) or those who have to be reminded to stop eating (people who gain weight easily).

I am the rare fat guy who does not gain weight easily, I did it by sheer will :eek:

Jordanbcool
05-14-2008, 08:39 AM
I am the rare fat guy who does not gain weight easily, I did it by sheer will :eek:

You just said you love to eat. Will would imply that you hate eating and you have to force yourself to eat. Anyways, you aren't posting anything relevant. To be honest no one cares how fat you are or how easily you gain weight. This isn't dr. phil. Its an internet forum.

WillNoble
05-14-2008, 08:43 AM
You just said you love to eat. Will would imply that you hate eating and you have to force yourself to eat. Anyways, you aren't posting anything relevant. To be honest no one cares how fat you are or how easily you gain weight. This isn't dr. phil. Its an internet forum.

hahaha....nice

markdk86
05-14-2008, 10:03 AM
Bull****.



Some of you are taking this completely overboard.


First of all, ketosis is waaaay overated. 50-100 grams of carbs will yield the same results in most cases. And with carbs that low, it doesn't matter one bit where they come from.


Second, refeeds and cheat DAYS are good for you. Yeah, you want to keep the fat somewhat low if your carbs are jacked up. But one ****in day is not going to make or break that much progress.

Look at the caloric content and amount over the course of the week.

Is the average intake exceeding maintenance? At maintenance? Under maintenance?

I undereat by over 8,000 calories in the course of 3.5 days.

Then, the next 3 days I overeat by at least 2,000-3,000 calories EACH day.


Guess what. I am still losing fat, gaining muscle, and getting stronger.

Yes, there are specific techniques and concepts that should be followed with any diet, especially the type that I just outlined.

If properly done there is nothing wrong with a cheat day as there is nothing wrong about a refeed. The problem lies where the OP said he will cheat 1-3 days.... that is a big problem.

Slim Schaedle
05-14-2008, 10:14 AM
The problem lies where the OP said he will cheat 1-3 days.... that is a big problem.

I agree to a point.

If his deficit is big enough the first few days, a cheat "half-week" is fine as long as the foods choices are sound.

markdk86
05-14-2008, 11:09 AM
I don't think his pizza and other crappy carb sources were sound at all.

polksalet
05-14-2008, 11:35 AM
You just said you love to eat. Will would imply that you hate eating and you have to force yourself to eat. Anyways, you aren't posting anything relevant. To be honest no one cares how fat you are or how easily you gain weight. This isn't dr. phil. Its an internet forum.

Sorry, I didn't see the banner that told me to check my sense of humor at the door.

Jordanbcool
05-14-2008, 11:36 AM
I agree to a point.

If his deficit is big enough the first few days, a cheat "half-week" is fine as long as the foods choices are sound.

But its not. His deficit is probably not big enough. He is not involved in a training program which is a key part of refeeds. You have much more LBM then him, are trained while he is not, and he does not have the nutritional knowledge or willpower like you do. You should not be giving advice based on your personal use of the UD2 diet. It is not appropriate for someone in his current position.

Jordanbcool
05-14-2008, 11:37 AM
Sorry, I didn't see the banner that told me to check my sense of humor at the door.

Its not funny. I was just stating a fact, no one really cares how much you eat or don't eat or how fat you are or how fat you aren't. You are derailing this thread and hindering helping out the original poster that made this thread.

polksalet
05-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Its not funny. I was just stating a fact, no one really cares how much you eat or don't eat or how fat you are or how fat you aren't. You are derailing this thread and hindering helping out the original poster that made this thread.

So you feel that good information is being added that will help this poster? It is quite obvious to me that the priginal poster doesn't know nor really care what he is doing. Lots of cheat days, little workout, ,etc. I figured this thread had gone over the hill.

Also, how do you know no one cares? I thought someone might actually take something useful from my postings on my diet. But there I go thinking again.

Slim Schaedle
05-14-2008, 12:04 PM
You should not be giving advice based on your personal use of the UD2 diet. It is not appropriate for someone in his current position.


You mean like you giving advice or posting in the anabolic forum? lol


I suppose none of us should offer any advice here because we are not in the same situation as another poster we are trying to help.




I am not defending the OPs actions or practices directly in relation to his progress, or training habits right now.


The whole point of this thread is to offer advice and suggestions in order to create change.


I would assume most of you could see my suggestions are based hypothetically if the OP were to adjust his training and diet.


Even then, a caloric deficit throughout the week and a CHEAT DAY at the end is NOT going to backfire AS LONG AS calories are accounted for and training is adequate.

tr00warrior
05-14-2008, 06:07 PM
Ha, obviously I do care, or I wouldn't have started the thread.

You got me all wrong bro. I just wanted to know if filling up on foods at least once (ala cheat day, or cheat meal, or whatever the **** it is) a week of my choice that are high in carbs, particularly fast food or whatever, was required for this diet like I read somewhere else?

I'm NOT having 2-3 cheat days anymore, repeat: NOT having them. I was just describing what my diet was like when I originally started out.

And I am going to join my local gym as soon as I get a paycheck, if I have enough money. I think I'm getting paid ****ing slave labor wage. If I have to get another part time job, I will.

I still have some unanswered questions though if you guys don't mind:

What should my daily intake of grams of fat look like?

Can I fill up on natural fruit on my "cheat meal?"

And lastly, should I do cardio in the morning before eating anything to burn fat more efficiently, or is that just an old myth?

Thanks

Jordanbcool
05-16-2008, 10:30 AM
You mean like you giving advice or posting in the anabolic forum? lol


I suppose none of us should offer any advice here because we are not in the same situation as another poster we are trying to help.




I am not defending the OPs actions or practices directly in relation to his progress, or training habits right now.


The whole point of this thread is to offer advice and suggestions in order to create change.


I would assume most of you could see my suggestions are based hypothetically if the OP were to adjust his training and diet.


Even then, a caloric deficit throughout the week and a CHEAT DAY at the end is NOT going to backfire AS LONG AS calories are accounted for and training is adequate.

Ok cool. I agree.

Jordanbcool
05-16-2008, 10:39 AM
Ha, obviously I do care, or I wouldn't have started the thread.

You got me all wrong bro. I just wanted to know if filling up on foods at least once (ala cheat day, or cheat meal, or whatever the **** it is) a week of my choice that are high in carbs, particularly fast food or whatever, was required for this diet like I read somewhere else?

I'm NOT having 2-3 cheat days anymore, repeat: NOT having them. I was just describing what my diet was like when I originally started out.

And I am going to join my local gym as soon as I get a paycheck, if I have enough money. I think I'm getting paid ****ing slave labor wage. If I have to get another part time job, I will.

I still have some unanswered questions though if you guys don't mind:

What should my daily intake of grams of fat look like?

Can I fill up on natural fruit on my "cheat meal?"

And lastly, should I do cardio in the morning before eating anything to burn fat more efficiently, or is that just an old myth?

Thanks

1) I'm still weary about telling you eating fast food is ok on a cheat day or meal. The real problem is that you'll probably underestimate your food intake. I'm pretty sure that is what will happen. You will think you only ate a food serving of a couple hundred calories when in reality you might have eaten close to a thousand. This is especially true for high fat foods, sometimes foods you might not even know contain alot of calories. This is what I think you should do. I think your main problem right now is not training or sleep or anything else but diet. I think your biggest problem is diet. You should take a week to count calories and measure everything you eat. Buy some measuring cups (1 cup, 1/3 cup etc.) so you can measure everything out exactly. This way, afterwards you can get a better grasp on eyeballing everything. Secondly I think you should start using www.fitday.com to track your calories online. Its pretty simple to use although takes some getting used to.

2) Fruit is ok, just track how much you eat.

3) Morning cardio is good for mobilizing fat stores because you're usually glycogen depleted. Just don't go crazy. A light jog for a few miles is fine.

4) I would buy the UD2 booklet or the "Rapid fatloss handbook" from lyle mcdonald found at www.bodyrecomposition.com. These two books are probably one of the most informative books I've ever read and will help you know more about ketosis and other important things within your body. You don't have to follow either diets if you don't want........but the information they contain is invaluable IMO.