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ElPietro
07-08-2003, 03:00 PM
Just wondering on some minor things, like wrist and knee wraps, if the brand really matters much. I was hoping someone would have been at the meet I was helping out with, but the guy there only sold illegal suits and other miscellaneous bs.

I noticed on elitefts they have some Metal wraps and bands, along with pretty much the rest of the line of gear.

Currently I train with the following equipment:

Chalk


So, I think that knee wraps will be somewhat important soon, as my partner says that they can be painful at first, and it's better to learn to train with them sooner rather than later. Wrist wraps aren't expensive, and I figure if I start benching more, I may get soreness. I did at some point in the past on HST, so I'd rather have them in case I need them, than not.

I don't know what else I'd need for now. I'm in no big rush, as I don't plan on competing at least for 3-6 months minimum, and then I'd have to check if there is a local meet.

I know we've had equipment discussions before but they are sorta all over the place.

I don't know if I'll get a belt or not. I probably will break down eventually, or see if it's THAT critical. I'm guessing when I seriously start taxing myself, I may start to want to use one if it helps with my totals. So far I've always trained raw and been perfectly content to do so. I may even contemplate my first comp completely raw, but not sure if that would garner more respect, or be viewed as condescension, so I guess I'll have to see how much of a disadvantage I'd be at without the gear.

Some guys could barely walk, and had their hands parallel with their shoulders half the day with their suits and shirts on. Funny to watch but I realize it's part of the sport.

Thanks. :)

Paul Stagg
07-08-2003, 03:06 PM
Train and lift they way YOU like. Raw or equipped.

IMO, the brand of wrap doens't matter much, although I'm sure some will find things about specific brands they like.

I use 2 brands of knee wraps - I have old loose generic ones, and newer tight Inzer wraps, and some generic wrist wraps (that need to be replaced).

I use the wrist wraps virtually every ME bench day. I rarely use my knee wraps in training.

I only wear my belt for DE box squats.

PowerManDL
07-08-2003, 03:07 PM
As far as wraps go, I've heard nothing but good about Titan Signatures....however, last I checked they were phasing those out for a newer product, and I don't know if they've gotten it out yet since I haven't looked.

I've been loving the Red Devils I got from them, though, and Inzer's another good one to look at.

The wrist and knee wraps are all I use so far (well, besides chalk), so I can't comment on bench shirts, squat suits, briefs, belts, or any of the rest just yet.

Chris Rodgers
07-08-2003, 07:21 PM
Inzer's are great and not too expensive.

ElPietro
07-08-2003, 07:34 PM
Cool, yeah it seemed at the meet, most people were either using Inzer gear, or Metal.

I think I'm just going to get knee and wrist wraps and basically continue lifting raw, or as raw as it's considered with wraps.

I was helping a team of 3 get a guys belt one notch tighter before he got his deadlift record. He also needed two guys to get his deadlift suit on. I don't know how he could breath, and he could barely walk in it. Oh well, he got a 292.5kg deadlift in the 87.5kg weight class, so more power to him. Then I was in charge of him as I was the marshall for the meet. :cool:

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 08:11 AM
Have any of you ordered from monstermuscle.com? Or is there a better place, or better prices?

They also have inzer deadlift shoes which seem cheaply priced, and the lever belt which I'd get if I actually wanted a belt. Elite only has a pronged belt, and I don't think they have shoes, and only care metal gear.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 08:34 AM
Ok, sometimes i should take my own advice, and use the search engine first. It seems montermuscle is very reputable, so no need to chime in.

But for a belt, do you think pronged versus lever is superior? I'd think otherwise, just because you can set the prong semi-tight, and then lock in with the lever so you are super tight.

I think I'll get the wraps, both wrist and knee, and the shoes and the belt. Should I get 20 inch or 36 inch wrist wraps? I have pretty big wrists, but I'm wondering if 36 is overkill.

Franco
07-09-2003, 09:32 AM
I've got the Reebok dead shoes and absolutely love them

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 09:36 AM
Hey frankie, the guy I train with says I should get wrestling shoes, or something to deadlift in. There isn't much choice on the internet, and not sure where to go in canada, so I can get stuff from monstermuscle at a good price. They only have one brand but they are only $39 US anyway.

Did it make a difference for you on maxes and stuff? I'm guessing if you love them they helped somewhat, or at least made things more comfortable. For that price I'm willing to get them, and they don't look completely retarded so if I walk around the gym in them, I won't feel too bad. :p

Any other suggestions?

PowerManDL
07-09-2003, 09:51 AM
Hell I've been doing my max deadlifts barefoot recently.

Paul Stagg
07-09-2003, 10:57 AM
I'd go with a prong belt. The lever belts are a pain to adjust.

I think the longer wrist wraps are overkill, and some federations (USAPL/IPF ) limit the length. Mine are 12 inches, and work just fine.

I deadlift in cross trainers. My deadlift sucks. I doubt it's the shoes.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 11:31 AM
Matt, unfortunately barefoot deadlifting is not legal in competition.

Paul, I'd agree it's easier to adjust a pronged belt, but the thing with the lever belt is you make the adjustment the first time you get it, and then it's always at the right size. You just put it on loose, and when you're ready you snap the lever and it's tight. Maybe I'm missing something regarding this, but I see it as better. But haven't tried it so was just looking for more opinions. Maybe I'll just skip the belt for now. Just that if I order online, I'd rather get everything I probably will need for the near future.

I think I'll get the mid-sized wraps, I'm guessing 36 IS overkill, but 12 would probably only go around once, and then maybe a bit of overlap and that's it. I have very thick wrists, so rather have a bit more than a bit less.

As for shoes, I don't think it's a huge deal, but I guess an inch or half an inch off the ROM, can be significant if it's a max lift and you are borderline. They have better grip and ankle support than my current shoes and are cheap. Normally I'd agree with you and skip them, but Harnek said I should get some, so maybe I'll listen to him since they aren't really that pricey. If they only add piece of mind so be it.

So I guess the only undecided is pronged belt or not. Harnek uses the lever belt and it looks pretty simple enough, although I guess the pronged belt would be better if you like things super tight, I believe he doesn't like it to be THAT tight, so maybe it's a personal preference thing.

Adam
07-09-2003, 12:05 PM
Belt- Pronged is really good if you tend to change the tightness of your belt alot. I always use the same fit so i lever is much better. In a meet i just leave the lever undone and when i need to go lift i just have to snap it shut instead of finding the right hole for the prong to go in.
Knee wraps - I have the titan signatures and there good but they fall apart quickly. I know a few other guys with the same problem. Most people use the inzer ones and they are supposed to last a lot longer then the signatures
I dont wear wrist wraps yet so i cant help much there. If you want you could get a long pair for training and max competition length so you could use those in a meet.
Shoes - For deadlifting i just use Aquasocks. There very thin soled and have lots of grip and last for a long time. cost about 5 bucks and you can get lots of different colors:) Wal mart and canadian tire have them

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 12:15 PM
What is max competition length for wraps? 20 inches on the wrist? I'm guessing the 2m knee wraps are competition legal since these seem to be the standard size for most of them.

WTF are aquasocks? I'll have to check them out now. But if it's not like a shoe then I'd rather just get the shoes, I don't really want to keep going into the changeroom to change what I'm wearing during the workout.

WillKuenzel
07-09-2003, 12:36 PM
Aquasocks are those really cheap shoes you wear in the water when you are going canoeing or something. They tend to be low cut, very good gripping soles (normally for like wet rocks and stuff), and fit pretty snug like socks.

Paul Stagg
07-09-2003, 12:45 PM
the lengths vary by federation.

I like the prong belt because I wear it loose in training for DE squats, but tighten it up on heavier stuff.

Other than that, use whatever you like. The support will be the same.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 12:54 PM
Basically I will try to stick with IPF regulations, since I believe that is what the CPU and OPA here are guaged by.

One of the guys I was in charge with last sunday for drug testing made elite total status in the 67.5kg weight class I think it was. That's pretty damned amazing to see. I don't think there are THAT many elites running around, and to see it at a local meet is cool.

I'm hoping that I can get Class II status in my first comp. I think that would be a great achievement, and since it seems my squats are so far behind they can only go up. If they do then it shouldn't be a problem, even if I lifted raw. I would need a 600kg total if I was entered in the 100kg class which is sorta my short-term goal.

Dunno if I'd use a belt for DE squats, do you find it helps a lot Paul? I guess I'm going to have to just get the stuff and try it out, as everyone will probably feel it makes more or less difference, etc.

Paul Stagg
07-09-2003, 01:22 PM
I think they are 2 meter knee wraps... I don't remember how long the wrist wraps can be, but I do remember there being a limitation.

Here is the USAPL rulebook (they are IPF):
http://www.usapowerlifting.com/rulebook/usapl_rulebook2000.pdf

Paul Stagg
07-09-2003, 01:25 PM
1 meter wrist wraps are OK.

Class II in your first meet would be awesome.

Where are your lifts now, and when do you think you would be competing?

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 01:43 PM
Hmm...my lifts now I haven't really established maxes yet.

Right now I can or have done the following:

Deadlift 525 - I have a lot of improving to do, haven't deadlifted that long, and just coming off a break. Feeling like I have a lot left in me. Also, will experiment with sumo deads but so far am comfy with conventional or shoulder width stance.

Bench 305 - I benched 305 on monday, not with a pause mind you, and I understand that will make a significant difference. But I moved the bar very smoothly throughout the ROM, and again, just started benching heavy again.

Squat 405x2 - Squats are the key for me. They are my biggest weakness, but I haven't ever had someone to train with for them, so going by my other lifts, and comparing to virtually every other lifter I've seen, my squats are freakishly low for my other lifts, so it stand to reason they will go up significantly now that I am free to max out or go to failure. That 405x2 also was not to legal depth, but am now training for depth.

I've only just started training in a powerlifting centric routine, so it stands to reason that I will only get better. I am training with an IPF licensed referee so it's great to see first hand what would and wouldn't pass. Also, he's competed all over the world, reffed all over the world, and trained for at least 20 years as a plifter.

All my lifts are raw, so if I did incorporate some equipment, it could only help my total.

But I don't plan on competing for at least 5 or 6 months, I realize I have a lot to learn with form, and much progress to make, so until then, I'd rather not compete, but will continue to help with local meets Harnek puts on.

If I just went in with those totals and was 10lbs lighter to get in the 100kg class, I would be semi-competitive now, but never have a chance of winning, so I want to come in and at least compete for first or second, instead of being at the bottom of the list.

Maybe my goals are high but I don't think so.

I am making the following goals: (all competition legal lifts)

Squat: 450
Deadlift: 575
Bench: 325

Total: 1350

I think this is pretty easy for me to reach, even in maybe 3 months time. Harnek seems to think once I work my squats out, and get bench form down, I should hit a 1400 total within 4-6 months. Either way, that would put me in Class II with some room to spare, so hopefully I can meet these goals. It's all about squats anyway, most guys that are deadlifting what I deadlift, are squatting at least 500 as well.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 01:44 PM
Pardon the long-winded response. :redface:

Paul Stagg
07-09-2003, 01:51 PM
Don't worry about where you place, worry about your lifts. Where you place can change if one or two guys show up (or not).

I think your goals are pretty reasonable.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Don't worry about where you place, worry about your lifts. Where you place can change if one or two guys show up (or not).

I think your goals are pretty reasonable.

Yeah, I guess it's more of not wanting to be the "boob" of the division. :p I know everyone is supportive in the sport, but I am pretty competitive. I checked out about 6 or 7 results from meets in ontario, and even some nationals, and in that weight class, usually mid 600s wins, and then there are some high 500s and maybe someone in the 400s as well. Although, one freak had I think a 730 total in the 100kg class which was like 50kg heavier than the top guy in the 110 class. With a low to mid 600s I could at least be respectable in either 100 or 110, but not win.

As for goals, I'll just take it one step at a time. Focus will be on squats and overall lower body and core strength for the next 4-6 weeks.

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 01:57 PM
And thanks for the comments and advice. :)

Chris Rodgers
07-09-2003, 05:30 PM
I have 20" wrist wraps and they are great.

I prefer the prong belts because I adjust the belt for different lifts. Much simpler than busting out a screw driver.



Your goals are definitely reasonable. I'm sure you saw at the meet though, get your squats ATF if you want to compete in the IPF!!

ryan1117
07-09-2003, 07:24 PM
I have sort of a similar question. I guess my biggest question is how much special shoes or belts help on deadlifts. I've just been doing them with normal shoes and no belt. Does anyone on here have accruate comparisons with what they can deadlift with or without this stuff?

I guess I just want to see if it is worth it for me to get special equipment for my max attempts. I figure I won't bother if they only help like 5 pounds. But, something like 15 or 20 pounds would be a different story!

ElPietro
07-09-2003, 09:02 PM
I don't think you can attach a number to any of the equipment. It's most likely a uniquely individual thing.

I think someone can add knee wraps, and maybe get 10-20 lbs of mechanical advantage if they were sorely lacking, or they could get almost no mechanical advantage. Then someone may get no mechanical advantage, but may FEEL stronger, or push themselves past a limit that they once had in their mind, and lift more weight. Is this physically because of the wraps? Not really, just a mental thing.

I bet with proper focus, and mental training, you can add a significant amount of weight to any major compound max attempt.

ElPietro
07-10-2003, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by LATMAN
I'm sure you saw at the meet though, get your squats ATF if you want to compete in the IPF!!

Lol, yeah man, I was kinda disappointed I missed the big guys squat, since I was cooped up in a hotel room, with four guys wanting to piss really badly but had to wait for the paper work and test kits. :p

From the flights I did see, they were going plenty deep. I still haven't downloaded my pics, hopefully I managed to snap a few at full depth, cuz most ppl seemed to be going so far down there was no doubt at all. I don't think I even saw one guy get a red for depth.


So how long do wraps generally last? Should I get some for training, and then just keep a pair basically brand new to compete in whever that will be?

benchmonster
07-10-2003, 08:31 AM
I suggest the Inzer Z wraps, or the Inzer IronWraps - A. I own the Z-wraps, but don't like them that much, cause they are so tight and painful. I like a looser knee wrap, personally.

The Inzer Z wraps for the wrist are great. They are very tight and supportive, so I love them for the same reasons I dislike the knee wraps. I am a complicated individual.

Re: belts. Get one, and get a maximum thickness belt. I think that 1/2 inch is max thickness, but Inzer, or Crain, or whomever you order from will know what the max thickness is.

B.

ElPietro
07-10-2003, 08:38 AM
All the belts I've seen listed have been in either 10mm or 13mm thicknesses. I think either are legal but will double check before I make a purchase. Thanks.

Did you ever get that video up, of a makeshift glute ham-raise? I remember you saying you'd post it but I tried a few times long ago and never seen it. I think you said you used a couple benches and a medicine ball or something like that.

DK
07-13-2003, 02:14 PM
I just have a question on the wrist wraps. Are they only for if you have weak wrists? Or is there another reason to use them? I got a free pair from Titan, and I wondered if I should be using them. If it would maybe help me any. My wrist do seem sore after DE bench, but not weak or painful. I've never used wrist wraps before, so I'm kinda curious.

benchmonster
07-14-2003, 02:19 PM
El Pietro, I sent those vids to Tommy Fannon to post over at Growordie.com but I don't think he ever put them up. Sorry.

And DKliewer, if you get to 400, or 500+ on bench, there are not too many people who can handle that kind of weight without wraps (and fairly few who can handle that weight with them).

Don't use them for curls, or anything like that, but they can save you from carpal tunnel syndrome if you use them on bench and squats.

B.

DK
07-14-2003, 07:25 PM
You don't have to worry about the curls (lol). So it would be a good idea to start using them, even though I have no problems handling the weight? I'm going to failure, the weight just isn't heavy enough for it to hurt my wrists.

benchmonster
07-15-2003, 08:35 AM
Eventually the weights should get heavy enough to bother your wrists and hands. Personally, I would rather avoid carpal tunnel than recover from it, but if it is not bothering you, I don't guess it is that big of a deal.

B.

ElPietro
07-17-2003, 07:06 AM
Ok, the topic is now bands. Do you guys only use them primarily for bench? If not, what else and how.

I am going to order some, so I guess the ones they have at monstermuscle are fine eh? They do have the ones I see elsewhere, with the mini, light, average, etc, but also have strength bands that are all just 25lbs each, and you add more each time. What is best to get? Maybe a pair of minis and a pair of light bands?

Any other suggestions on this? Lemme know.

Thanks. :)

Paul Stagg
07-17-2003, 07:22 AM
Minis for bench - You need to have a HUGE bench to use anything more, and even then it would be monster minis.

I have minis, light, average, and strong.

I use the minis for DE bench (but not often). I used the lights for DE squatting, but have since decided to not use them for squatting for a while. (Were I to do a speed strength cycle, I would need the strong bands, if I remember right)

I use the lights and average for reverse band benching and deadlifting

I use the minis for band pressdowns, shoulder work, stuff like that.

I use the lights for stretching.

The strong bands are still wrapped in their plastic.

I got the band package from elitefts.com

ElPietro
07-17-2003, 07:31 AM
Not sure what reverse band benching is, but I guess then my idea of getting a pair of minis, and a pair of light is probably the best idea.

I am thinking that the average will be of somewhat less help, as I could probably just add a bit more weight to whatever bar I am using, and then just use the lights.

Thanks for the help. :) Monstermuscle is the same price as elite, so i may as well keep the order on the same site and hopefully save some on shipping costs.

ElPietro
07-17-2003, 08:07 AM
Oh, and for bench and squat, do you just attach the band to the bottom of the rack? or what? Just wondering if there is any lateral tension as well, depending on where you hook it to, or does it matter where they are hooked along the bar?

I think I'm making a deal with Harnek my training partner, that I'll buy the bands, but he has to build a box.

Paul Stagg
07-17-2003, 08:51 AM
Reverse band benching and deadlifting: Attach a band to the top of a power rack (or to a safety pin for the deads) and put the bands around the bar. The bands help more at the bottom.

For DE benching, I double the minis around a dumbell.

For squatting (I squat outside of a rack for DE work because my stance is wider than the rack is), I choke the bands around 2 dumbells - If I only use one, there isn't tension at the bottom.

The bends just go aorund the bar at the inner collar, or between plates - for DE stuff, the bands are on the bar from the get-go, on the reverse band stuff, sometimes you have to put weight on the bar to hold it down.

Adam
07-17-2003, 09:36 AM
Do NOT attach bands around a rack when doing squats. I was doing a circa maximal cycle before (average+2mini's per side) and bad things happend:D
I almost put the rack through the mirror in front of me

benchmonster
07-18-2003, 08:38 AM
Adam, your rack needs to be bolted down!!! Ha ha ha. We were benching up at Hannibal's (different board) house and I got on there with doubled average (green) bands to do some low rack work. Now a doubled mini is like 50-75 lbs of tension, right? Imagine a doubled average band, we are talking 3 or 400 lbs of tension there. I picked up the bar, with 185 or 225 lbs of weight on it, plus the bands, plus the power rack plus the dumbells we were anchoring the rack with. It was quite a scene. Fortunately nobody (meaning me) got hurt.

After that we had lifters stand on the rack. But if you can, raise the rack off the platform a few inches using 4x4's, and bolt the rack through the 4x4's to the platform. This is best as it gives you a sturdy anchor for bands, and allows you to get your feet under the rack for a wide stance squat.

And I have used all the bands at one time or another for all the lifts. But for most 2 pairs of doubled minis is going to be plenty of tension for bench pressing. And the Average bands are going to be plenty for squatting. We usually use the Strong bands when we squat with bands, but we have a group of 700-900 lb squatters using those bands. 500-700 squatters probably need to use the Average bands, and 300-500 squatters should use the light bands.

B.

DK
07-18-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Reverse band benching and deadlifting: Attach a band to the top of a power rack (or to a safety pin for the deads) and put the bands around the bar. The bands help more at the bottom.


Coud I do max effort bench work with the bands doubled (like DE), or is it better to do reverse band presses with the barbell suspended?

Adam
07-20-2003, 05:19 PM
I do that alot DK. Its definatly one of my favorite ME lifts to do.
Get a good spotter cause once you fail it comes down hard with lots of tension!

Paul Stagg
07-21-2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by dkliewer


Coud I do max effort bench work with the bands doubled (like DE), or is it better to do reverse band presses with the barbell suspended?

Do 'em both. I prefer reverse bands because the bar weight is higher than what I'm used to... but doing ME work with minis doubled would be just fine, too.

Keep in mind what Latty said. Spotter or rack - having a bar loaded near a 1RM with minis on it comes down REALLY fast.