HcG????

[southern5575]

Would I have to inject into my testicle?????? I didn't know that?
This will be my first cycle.... Do I have to have HcG??

[restless]

Would I have to inject into my testicle?????? I didn't know that?
This will be my first cycle.... Do I have to have HcG??

Damn, that's crazy.

No you don't have to inject into your testicle, how told you that?

HCG should be used on long cycles to prevent testicular atrophy and possibly to facilitate HPTA recovery.

What is your cycle?

[Bam Bam]

i would say you need to do more research

[twisteddendrite]

Would I have to inject into my testicle?????? I didn't know that?


ROFL PLUMPS EM RIGHT UP.

[BCC]

lol. that is all.

[Hatred]

:eek:

LOL. wow. sesame seed oil works really good for nut plumping.

[southern5575]

NO~! I read it on a previous post and then I said what the #$## Forget it then! Ok, I have everything straight...
1st cycle:
500mg test ethanate wk/ 1-10
30mg D bol 1-4
PCT clomid and HcG and it ain't goin downstairs!

[restless]

NO~! I read it on a previous post and then I said what the #$## Forget it then! Ok, I have everything straight...
1st cycle:
500mg test ethanate wk/ 1-10
30mg D bol 1-4
PCT clomid and HcG and it ain't goin downstairs!

Use HCG during the cycle, not post cycle. 500 IU's twice a week is the reommended dose these days.

[southern5575]

I thought HcG was for post...? so how many amps would I need for a 12 week cycle?
I also thought you inject 1/4 an amp per injection.. Thanks

[restless]

I thought HcG was for post...? so how many amps would I need for a 12 week cycle?
I also thought you inject 1/4 an amp per injection.. Thanks

You would need about 1 5000 IU's amp per five weeks, so something like 2-3 amps. HCG does nothing post cycle but hindering recovery even further, but during cycle it will prevent testicular atrophy, and this might help post cycle since your testicles never stopped producing endogenous test, even if by means of artificial stimulation from the HCG.

[gino]

You would need about 1 5000 IU's amp per five weeks, so something like 2-3 amps. HCG does nothing post cycle but hindering recovery even further, but during cycle it will prevent testicular atrophy, and this might help post cycle since your testicles never stopped producing endogenous test, even if by means of artificial stimulation from the HCG.

Really? I found it to work very well for me post cycle. You're telling me it didn't work well?

[restless]

Really? I found it to work very well for me post cycle. You're telling me it didn't work well?

Of course it does, it raises testosterone by 600 % (or something like that), bridging with a mild anabolic also works well in terms of gains retention, but if you're looking to normalize HPTA functioning then it's not the best course of action.

Not to mention the possible concerns regarding Ledwig (spelling?) cells that high dose HCG use raises.

[Teufelhund]

Leydig, I believe.

A nifty article you've probably already seen that I just came across: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10611306&dopt=Abstract

man... I'm still squirming at the thought of a nut injection...

[gino]

Of course it does, it raises testosterone by 600 % (or something like that), bridging with a mild anabolic also works well in terms of gains retention, but if you're looking to normalize HPTA functioning then it's not the best course of action.

Not to mention the possible concerns regarding Ledwig (spelling?) cells that high dose HCG use raises.

Geez, I thought that helping restore HPTA fuction is what HCG was all about... It doesn't speed up that process in conjunction with clomid? I didn't use too high a dose - only 3 injections, 2000 IU every 5 days. My nuts blew up, I felt great, and kept all of my gains...

[restless]

Well, it mimics leutenizing hormone and will force the testicles to produce test, but in high doses it might cause Leydig's cell desensitization to endogenous LH, which is a potentially negative thing. Taking too much HCG can possibly, according to some people, even induce primary hipogonadism, which is permanent. I think this is only a concern with more of a long term usage though.

Here's some abstracts that were posted at CEM:

[Kinetics of the steroidogenic response of the testis to stimulation by hCG. V. Blockade of 17-20 lyase induced by hCG is an age-dependent phenomenon inducible by pre-treatment with hCG]

[Article in French]

Forest MG, Roulier R.

The series of events, evidenced in animals after a single injection of human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG): down-regulation of LH/hCG membrane receptors, uncoupling between receptors and the adenylate cyclase, also includes a blockade of testicular steroidogenesis beyond cyclic-AMP formation, including an inhibition of the 17 alpha-hydroxylase-17, 20-desmolase enzymatic complex. This complex phenomenon, named hCG-induced testicular desensitization also occurs in adult men. Since it is not known if and when these effects are initiated during sexual maturation, we have investigated the kinetics of responses of plasma testosterone (T), its two immediate precursors, delta 4-androstenedione (delta 4) and 17 alpha-hydroxprogesterone (OHP), and 17 beta-estradiol (E2) for a week after a single injection of hCG given at the same dosage (100 IU/kg body weight) in subjects not yet exposed to adult levels of endogenous LH, ie prepubertal boys and untreated hypogonadotrophic hypogonadic (HH) adult men. The HH subjects have been restudied after 3 months of a weekly injection of the hCG at the same dosage. In immature individuals, the effect of hCG on testicular steroidogenisis was strikingly different from that observed previously in adults: in the former, whether prepubertal boys or untreated HH adults, a single hCG injection induced a progressive and substantial rise in plasma T, maximal at 96-120 h, a modest and late rise in E2, but no significant change in delta 4 or OHP. In contrast, in adult men there is a dissociation between the responses of plasma T and delta 4 (maximal at about 72 h) to hCG and those of OHP and E2 which peak at about 24 h. After 3 months of hCG-treatment the adult pattern was induced in HH patients: early and significant rise in OHP and E2. This suggests that a pre-exposure to LH/hCG is necessary for hCG-induced testicular desensitization, at least for its enzymatic expression. A stimulatory effect of hCG on a testicular aromatase and an inhibitory effect on the 17, 20-desmolase are observed concomitantly in relation to age or to previous gonadotropin environment. It still remains uncertain to conclude that the former effect is directly responsible for the latter.

Testicular responsiveness to chronic human chorionic gonadotropin administration in hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

D'Agata R, Vicari E, Aliffi A, Maugeri G, Mongioi A, Gulizia S.

Steroidogenic responsiveness to long term hCG administration (1500 U three times a week for 23 months) was characterized in 8 males with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH). During hCG treatment, testosterone (T), which was in the prepuberal range under basal conditions, rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range and remained at that level during the 23 months of observation. A 2.5-fold increase was observed in serum levels of 17 beta-estradiol (E2) an increment less than seen with T. The increment in 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone was also lower than that in T throughout the study; thus, the 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone to T ratio, despite continuous hCG administration, remained low. Serum androstenedione was slightly increased during hCG therapy. No significant changes were observed in serum levels of dehydroepiandrosterone. These data indicate that continuous long term hCG administration stimulated T levels in HH, with a relatively small change in E2. The kinetics of the T and E2 responses to 2000 U hCG, evaluated after 23 months of therapy, indicated that the testicular response was markedly reduced. No increment in T levels was observed at 24 h; the maximal response occurred at 48 h. This pattern of T response supports the idea that partial testicular desensitization occurs in HH patients receiving chronic treatment with hCG.

[gino]

Thanks, that's some great info. So, am I using it the right way, as I always thought I should use it?

[restless]

Thanks, that's some great info. So, am I using it the right way, as I always thought I should use it?

Do you mean the 2000 IU's every five days during PTC you mentioned earlier?

[gino]

Do you mean the 2000 IU's every five days during PTC you mentioned earlier?

Yeah.

[restless]

Yeah.

Well, for one thing the dosage is too high, in my opinion. And like I said, I'm convinced it should be used during the cycle and not after it. I use it at 500 IU's twice per week, during all, or most of the cycle. Even if you want to keep using it post cycle you could lower the dosage for the reasons I mentioned.

[twisteddendrite]

The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.


IF I were you I would not even fu(k with it.
It aint all that.

clomid post works fine

[gino]

OK, now it's clear as mud.

Who do I believe? I don't hate either of you so I can't use that as a basis of elimination...

[PowerManDL]

If you're going to use it post (and assuming a long-ester), I'd run a mild dosage starting immediately after the last inject....say 1000 IU the first shot and 500 IU 2x a week for three weeks or so, which is enough time for the ester to clear.

By that point, the testicles will be "primed" for the increased LH output that you'll be getting from your anti-aromatase and SERM.

Nobody ever said you had to use any excessive dosages...just enough to get the boys receptive to the body's own output.

[smalls]

I agree with PMDL.

[restless]

The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.


IF I were you I would not even fu(k with it.
It aint all that.

clomid post works fine

I think it is always nice to identify the source when you copy/paste something....

[twisteddendrite]

The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.



Source :The above horse ***** was copied from Anabolic Review
Source : The below words of wisdom were coppied from my own deep reckoning.


IF I were you I would not even fu(k with it.
It aint all that.

clomid post works fine

[southern5575]

hell yeah

[Me_TiTus]

Well, for one thing the dosage is too high, in my opinion. And like I said, I'm convinced it should be used during the cycle and not after it. I use it at 500 IU's twice per week, during all, or most of the cycle. Even if you want to keep using it post cycle you could lower the dosage for the reasons I mentioned.

As far as i know, one can take hcg during his cycle, but if you want to keep the gains hcg its a must after the cycle.

One should start the hcg terapy 15 days after his last shot(it depends on what you are taking), because if you taken it right after your the cycle the test enanthate(in this case) you have taken will remain active in your body for at least 4 weeks. Thus your body will realise your testosterone levels are too high so it will not realise the needed hormones to increase the body's own testosterone. On the other side if you don t take it, ...you know what happens...everything goes away.

[restless]

As far as i know, one can take hcg during his cycle, but if you want to keep the gains hcg its a must after the cycle.



If you look at it solely from the perspective of gains kept, then keeping yourself in the higher end or HRT trough something like 250 mg of a long trstosterone ester every other week will be your best bet.


Thus your body will realise your testosterone levels are too high so it will not realise the needed hormones to increase the body's own testosterone.

What hormones are you talking about? As far as I know HCG as a direct impact on the testicles, which are fooled into "thinking" that there's some LH hormone around, when there really isn't any. It won't make the HPTA function normally at all.

[gino]

Well it'll make the "T" in the HPTA do something and exit their dormant state, which must be somewhat beneficial for getting the system running normal again.

[restless]

Well it'll make the "T" in the HPTA do something and exit their dormant state, which must be somewhat beneficial for getting the system running normal again.

Yes, but so will using it during the cycle.

[southern5575]

NOW..... I am more confused than ever about HcG.... I know I really need to take it PCT...... I am still clueless on how long after first injection, what dosage, and practically everything about it..... Let's just all agree on one good thing here. I have also read a little about it in Muscle Development Mag. It is good to run it through your cycle. I am going to be taking Test E. 500 mg weekly... (12 weeks) I am going to run clomid and nolvadex...PCT... but I am still left clueless on my HCG.... Thanks everyone for all your opinions, but I am really after the best and only solution to end this cycle... for maximum results...