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Lonewolf
06-10-2004, 11:02 PM
I read a brief article on soy protein containing estrogen in it, does anyone have a percentage of how much each gram contains or how much you'd have to eat to make it a unhealthy amount.

Holto
06-11-2004, 11:53 AM
I think the general rule is no more than 20-50g's a day

there are isoflavones in soy that are moleculary similar to estrogen yet 1000x weaker

Jasonl
06-11-2004, 08:07 PM
:withstupi Also, there is no time in a male's life when he should take a soy protein shake.

mercury
06-12-2004, 12:16 PM
:withstupi Also, there is no time in a male's life when he should take a soy protein shake.

Plus it tastes like crap.

IMHO, you should use animal based protein.

TheGimp
06-12-2004, 12:31 PM
Plus it tastes like crap.
Whereas unflavoured whey tastes like nectar of the gods?

Personally I limit myself to about 30g a day mainly from tofu. I'm a vegetarian tho, not sure why you'd want it otherwise.

hemants
06-14-2004, 01:17 PM
No reason to limit soy.

Lots of speculation but the facts contradict this.

the doc
06-14-2004, 01:24 PM
yes, another BBing myth which seems to constantly be perpetuated

get protein from a variety of sources and it will never be anything to be concerned about

Jasonl
06-14-2004, 04:02 PM
Soy can bond to estrogen receptors and either enhance OR diminish the effects of estrogen, not something a male bb really wants. Soy does have many health benefits, however.

TheGimp
06-15-2004, 02:22 AM
I do not feel that the debate has been decided either way, that is why I limit myself "just in case".

hemants
06-15-2004, 10:28 AM
Well there are two camps.

In one camp you have lots of speculation.

On the other hand you have the entire nation of Japan and not one case of biatch tiets in 100's of years.

TheGimp
06-15-2004, 12:28 PM
The backlash against soy claims that the Japanese eat very little soy, in the region of 10g a day, and that they mainly eat tempura and soy sauce i.e. fermented sources. It claims that the only people that eat unfermented soy foods like tofu are religious monks who use it to reduce sex drive. While I am sceptical about many of these things (in particular I can assure you tofu does not reduce my sex drive) I know very little about the actual lifestyle of the Japanese. Furthermore I imagine that given how soy has been marketed as a wonder food and is available in all manner of products, our consumption, particularly as body builders trying to maximise our protein intake, is far more than the average Japanese individual.

T_Chapman
06-15-2004, 12:50 PM
i read in muscular development that soy gives you estrogen and to avoid it if youre trying to get muscles.

AllUp
06-15-2004, 01:13 PM
It does contain isoflavones. Here's a study on its long term hormonal effects of childrens formula (soy based).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15055353

"Recently, the finding of high plasma concentration of phyto-oestrogens in soy protein formula (SPF) fed children has focused scientific attention on the phyto-oestrogens (isoflavones genistein, daidzein, and their glycosides) contained in SPFs. The aim of this study was to evaluate some hormonal and metabolic effects of long-term (more than 6 months) SPF feeding."


"The serum level of bone alkaline phosphatase, osteocalcin, 17beta-oestradiol, and intact parathyroid hormone, and the urinary levels of the markers of bone metabolism were all within normal values. We conclude that long-term feeding with SPFs in early life does not seem to produce oestrogen-like hormonal effects."

I wonder about the 20-40ish age-range. Any studies? :)

Personally I'm not a huge fan of it anymore, but i'm sure the pro's would outweigh the cons (cancer prevention, bone mass benefits for metopausal women, etc). Not to mention its being used for like everything nowadays.

PiKappaWRX
06-15-2004, 01:39 PM
i just get soy protein from cereal. in the morning i want to get some protein with breakfast and really hate putting a scoop of whey in oatmeal so i just eat a high protein cereal. and it just happens that every cereal that is high in protein contains mostly soy protein. well anyways, it can't be that bad for you unless you're eating insane amounts of it.

Jasonl
06-15-2004, 09:24 PM
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/Soycs.html
Here is a little more inconclusive info on soy, the good and bad. Make of it what you will.:)