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Sensei
05-05-2006, 11:12 AM
JM Blakely is a bench press specialist who wrote many insightful articles for PLUSA magazine a few years back. Here is my favorite and it's a must-read for those who complain about not being able to gain weight. Here it is:


The Big Boy's Menu Plan by JM Blakely

Good Eating

Cold, hard fact number one: If you gain weight, you will get stronger. Everybody already knows that. Even if most of the weight is not good weight, it will nevertheless have a positive effect on strength. Of course, there is the argument that the weight one gains should be quality weight (i.e. muscle, which is preferable) but the truth is that even adipose and water weight can contribute to heavier poundages lifted. It is beyond the scope of this article to address the exact physiological mechanisms for this but tissue leverage is commonly cited as the main reason for the phenomenon. My purpose is not to explain why this happens but rather to explain how to take advantage of the fact that it happens. Weight moves weight!

If you understand and accept this, you have probably tried to bulk up?Eat some point in your training. You also have probably experienced the frustration, first-hand, of just how difficult it can be to gain weight. Anyone can gain 15-20 pounds (and they often do on accident!) but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm speaking of adding on 35-40 pounds on purpose with a combination of extra-heavy lifting and extra-heavy eating! If anyone is confused about what I'm saying here then this article is not for you. I won't waste your time explaining and justifying the need for some lifters to put on weight. But for those of you who have been desperately trying to get your weight up and crack through a plateau, let's get to it. Why can't you seem to gain weight?

DO THE MATH

Quite simply, you aren't eating enough! I know, I know, you eat all the time, you eat more than everyone you know, you have a fast metabolism, yadda, yadda, yadda. I know all the excuses. I used them myself. I even believed them. But there are rules in the universe. We are bound by the laws of physics and no one is pardoned. Creating a positive caloric balance is completely defined by the equation: calories in vs. calories out = calories net. That's it. No one escapes it. If you eat more calories than you use in a day, you will gain weight. Period. There is some fluxuation for metabolic shifts and the efficiency of the body's absorption of calories, granted, but this effect is small and it is the rare person who exhibits a metabolism that could bear the blame for one unable to manipulate their weight. More about this later, but for now get it straight- your metabolism is not to be a scapegoat for your lack of discipline. You must eat more. If your metabolism speeds up then you must eat even more to cover that. There is a limit to how fast your metabolism can run. You must stay ahead of it. And you must learn to control it. Above all, you must accept the unarguable fact that you must put more food into your mouth.

My favorite question to ask those people who think they are eating tons of food but not gaining weight is, "what do you weigh?" Then when they answer (let's say 195 lbs. for example) I respond "and how long have you weighed that?" They almost always answer that they have been at their current weight for over one year and often much longer. To this I quip "then you are eating enough to maintain 195 pounds. If you want to weigh 215, you need to eat more than a person who weighs 195. You have to eat like a person who weighs 215! You have proven that you eat only enough to keep your weight steady. You've been 195 for some time now! And what you're eating is enough to hold that. But it's not enough to drive it up. So if you think you're eating all this extra food, think again. You're eating a maintenance feed lot. You need a growth feed lot! If you've been eating like a 215 pounder all last year, you would weigh 215 now! You're not eating any more than any other 195 pounder! Try harder! Eat more!"
The only hole in this example is the energy output of the individual. But all things being equal, I hope you are getting the point here. You can't gain weight if you don't eat more.

The general principle is this: train as hard as you can to create a stimulus for growth. Then feed the body everything it needs to adapt. You must cover three needs. The recovery, the repair, and the growth. Some trainees only eat enough to recover from the last workout. They will end up overtrained because they aren't meeting the need for repair and their tissues begin to break down under the strain of heavy lifting.

Other lifters will eat enough to recover and repair, but not enough to cover the expense of growth. These lifters end up on a constant plateau, having hard workouts, recovering from them and not overtraining, but never seeing progress. It's a stalemate (the maintenance feed lot group). They train for years and somehow excuse the lack of results to genetics or another bogey man.

You have to cover all three aspects of nutrient need recovery, repair, and growth. First , eat enough to recover from the stress of a training session. Second, eat enough to repair any damage the workout may have caused.(If you are training very heavy, there is always micro-trauma occurring at the cellular level). Third, you must eat even more to cover the cost of your body building itself up. If you don't eat these extra calories, where will the body get the energy to do the building? And what ,pray tell, do you suppose it will use for building material? Your body needs stuff (matter) to build with. You can't build something out of nothing. The body needs substance to convert into body mass. That substance is food.

The only way to be absolutely certain that you are getting the most out of your workout is to eat more than you need for recovery, repair, and growth. You will begin to see a bit of bodyfat start to accumulate. Please don't misunderstand me and think I'm telling everyone to get obesely fat. I'm only suggesting a light layer of "winter weight" or a "softening" You should never let your bodyfat percentage rise above unhealthy levels, and never put on what you can't get off.

This is what I call bathing the cells in nutrients. You give them all they need and then a little bit extra which you can see usually around your middle. Remember; it's OK to put it on to gain strength if you also plan to take it off later and maintain your new strength level when you diet. Just make sure you get around to dieting sooner or later! This way every workout has the nutrients it needs to give it the chance to be fully effective.

Step one is the realization that you are ,in fact, not eating enough. Some trainees will admit this but then have trouble with the work of eating. To this I say only: DISCIPLINE! You must eat on schedule. You must eat what you are supposed to. You must not excuse yourself from eating what you are supposed to when you are supposed to. This is the self same discipline that everyone recognizes the need for in losing weight. It is no different for you who would choose to gain weight. No one feels sorry for a person who says they are trying to lose a few pounds and then proceeds to attend meetings with Ronald McDonald, Ben and Jerry, and Bud Weiser. And I don't feel sorry for those who lack the discipline to eat more.

I know how difficult it can be. But I am reminded of the time I was complaining to a friend about how hard I was trying to get my weight up to 300 pounds and how tough it was for me to eat so much, and boo-hoo-hoo. The friend looked at me, clearly fed up with my whining, and remarked "I see several people over 300 lbs at work (he was a physical therapist) and they really don't seem to be trying all that hard! They weigh 300 and they don't try!"
This put it in better perspective for me. I even had the advantage of working out with weights to help boost my weight and these guys were out eating me and my best effort without so much as a second thought. If people can do it on accident, I could certainly do it on purpose! And I did. So can you.

Admit that you are undereating. Then admit that you are not trying your best. I don't believe you if you tell me you can't eat any more than you are eating now. If you tell me you can't eat any more, I'll tell you that you just can't have what you want then. (I never argue with someone who tells me they can't). That's the universe's law, not mine. If you can't do the work, you can't have the reward. Sorry. Now, do you really mean can't or is it more like won't? If you want it, you can. Ask anybody who has.

Those are the two biggest roadblocks to gaining weight. Admitting that you are not doing the job and that your effort has been less than stellar, and realizing that if others can do it so can you. Once you accept those responsibilities, instead of complaining and passing the buck, you can get to the business of getting down to it. And that, my friends, is the same in all endeavors, if you are willing to pay the price, you can have the reward. I will readily admit that it seems to be easier for some than others. But the price is relative. You are not anyone else. You must not compare the ease or difficulty which you are presented to anyone else's situation. So what if it is easier for your pal to gain weight than you? What does that have to do with you? Nothing. Your task is your task. If you must eat 400 calories more than him to get the same results, then that's the price for you . You decide for yourself whether to pay up or not. Oh yeah, I should mention - life's not fair. He got a discount and you got taxed. So what? You can still both have it. Are you willing to pay or not? If you're not, you're not. But your reason shouldn't be because it cost you more than someone else. When someone wants something bad enough they'll pay double! They don't care- they are just happy to get it.

What I'm telling you is that you can gain weight if you accept the fact that it is possible and that it is going to be hard. I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it. Get rid of any excuse or explanation for not gaining other than I'm not trying hard enough. I must try harder. Then you're on your way. Blame only yourself for past shortcomings and resolve to bring whatever it takes to the table from now on.

Tricks of the Trade: Big Boy's Menu Plan

One secret is caloric density. Learn to eat foods that provide more calories per unit volume. That is, they give you lots of calories for how much space they take up in the gut. 250 calories of salad fills you up even with the dressing but a chocolate bar would only feel like a snack.

Also, add lots of condiments to your food. Carry mayo with you and add lots of it to everything. Same goes for Thousand Island dressing and chocolate sauce. Be creative and never eat anything that you don't add calories to in some way. Melt provolone cheese over your pasta. Put ranch dressing on your pizza. Dip potato chips in honey. I don't care what sick and twisted combinations you come up with, as long as you find it palatable. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've eaten. ( Try a bowl full of peanut butter smothered in maple syrup and a stick of butter in the microwave for 30 seconds. Lay two Hershey bars over it to melt and you'll just start to understand.)

Carry food with you. Always have a jar of peanuts in your car. Carry Pop-Tarts, Slim Jim meat snacks, candy bars, anything handy that travels well and needs no special preparation. Never get caught away from food. Put it in your desk, your locker, your gym bag, your brief case, hell, carry some around in your pockets if you have to! Never miss a meal because you couldn't eat. What's that? Couldn't eat? It takes less than 50 seconds to eat two candy bars. That's over 500 calories. Even if you have to sneak it on the job, go to the john and wolf them down. You must never be without food. Take some with you. and never say you didn't have time (50 seconds?!) or opportunity. Find time or make time.

Eat immediately upon arising. Start right away. You lost time sleeping - you weren't eating! Fill up first thing in the morning. Don't wait! You went several hours without any food. The longer you wait the less time you have to get all the food your supposed to eat down. If you wait long enough it will be impossible to make it. You'll run out of time. Get off to a solid start. Minimum first meal calories: 1200. Eat over a grand right away and the rest of the day will be easier. Eat less, and you'll be playing catch-up all day long.

Eat just prior to bed. You are going to go for hours without food?Euel up! This is your last chance to feed your body for a long time give it one last push. This is uncomfortable for many, but with practice you will adapt and be able to eat a good calorie load before retiring. Shoot for 500 calories minimum.

Try foods you used to dislike or have never eaten before. After several weeks of overeating, everything begins to taste the same. Even your favorite foods lose their flavor. You exhaust your repertoire of choices. Open it up. Go for the calamari or the shark fin soup. Try a quiche. Eat at an ethnic restaurant. Find new favorites that you can eat lots of. I hated cottage cheese as a youngster, but now I mix it in with spaghetti and dump it into soups! I even eat the fat free variety on a reducing diet! You will surprise yourself. Don't be afraid to try. You may still dislike salmon, but you may get a taste for artichoke after all.

Drink regular soda pop (possibly caffeine free) and whole milk. Never drink any fluids that don't have calories. No tea without sugar, no coffee without cream and sugar, no diet beverages whatsoever. No plain water! Canned soda pop is an excellent source of purified water. But it also has precious calories. Gatorade is fine and has electrolytes as well. 108 ounces a day is the minimum. But don't fill your stomach without putting some calories in along with. A 12 0z. can of soda pop has about 150 calories. Quench your thirst and give your body more calories at the same time. ( I'm not knocking water, folks, I'm just illustrating that you can hydrate yourself and get calories in the bargain. )

Count your calories. You may think you are consuming an abundance of food, but you're probably giving yourself too much credit. It is very hard to eat over 5000 calories every day for weeks on end. And if its 7 or 8,000 you think you're getting in every day I think you'd better check that. Often a trainee will eat 6,000 calories on Monday, but then stoop to 3500 or so for the next two days. Then Thursday maybe get 5500 and follow that for two days of 3000. all the while they believe that they are eating 6000 every day. Avoid this kind of fluxuation. Keep a solid average. And keep track. At least for a series of days every now and then. A few days a month check up on yourself. If your goal is 5500 calories a day add it all up and make sure. You'll soon get better at estimating and you won't have to go through this so much. But take my advice, if you are not seeing the scale move the way you think it should, double check your count. You most likely are overestimating your intake. This gives you feedback so you can make adjustments. Even if you're an old pro at calorie counting it's a good idea to take account every so often.

Issues and Precautions

This kind of diet is admittedly not the most conducive to your overall health. But we should get one thing straight - you are not doing it for health reasons, you are doing it for better performance in your chosen sport. This is one of those "quality of life" issues. You choose to pursue powerlifting because of reasons other than improved health such as challenge, personal pride, self esteem benefits, sense of strength, or any other of a basket full of psycho/emotional reasons not to mention the sheer fun of it! There are plenty of health benefits to the sport of powerlifting and weight training in general which have all been outlined many times before. I acknowledge those, of course, I'm just saying that if you are competing and trying to bulk up, you probably have more personal motives for continuing to put so much into this sport. And those motives most likely supersede any health benefits.

Having said that, let me turn the table back on your health. This style of diet can have very serious effects on your body. One effect is a dramatic improvement in your strength. But another effect is an increase in your blood cholesterol level! It would be irresponsible of me to ignore the down side?E So I'll give a few suggestions of what I feel is prudent and responsible behavior that would accompany such an eating program. (It's all common sense, anyway!)

Have your cholesterol checked before you begin. Get a baseline. If you have high levels, you may want to reconsider and see your doctor about options to lower it.

Check your cholesterol every 15-20 pounds that you gain. Or every 10 weeks on the diet. Set a limit with your doctor as to how high you will permit it to rise and remain on the diet. If it goes above such-and-such a number, abort .

Do some form of cardiovascular exercise. Minimum 3 days per week. I know you don't want to spend the precious calories on cardio, but the cv exercise will help keep the cholesterol down as well as abating some of the inevitable sluggishness that comes with weight gain. I've done it both with and without cv and I feel much ,much better with a daily walk. And you can eat just one more snickers bar to cover it. All the while your heart gets some exercise and your metabolism doesn't get so loggy.

Check your blood pressure at the start and then every four days while on the diet. Get your own monitor or find one of the countless free places that you can have it taken for you. Use the same equipment every time. Expect some increase in bp. Consult your doctor and make a decision as to what you both will tolerate. If your bp goes past the limit you have set, abort.

Issues of sleep apnea can develop. This is a tough disorder in which you interrupt your breathing for a few seconds all through the night and wake up in the morning exhausted from gasping for 8 hours! This affects a huge number of people in the US but commonly is made worse by gaining weight. If it affects you, you may not know it?Eouíre asleep while it's going on. But sooner or later someone will tell you, your wife, your girlfriend, your next-door neighbor. It's often confused for a bad case of snoring. But after a couple of weeks of full nights rest and an accompanying deep fatigue, you will begin to suspect something is wrong. I wish I had some sort of fix-it for this but the only advice I can give is to try propping yourself up at a slight incline when you sleep and put up with it as much as your significant other will allow. If it is too much of a problem, seek medical attention and decide what else to try. If you must , abort. You won't see the progress you want in your training if you're not getting the rest you need.

Have a full blood work up done (this will most likely accompany your cholesterol but ask for it any way. These days health care professionals are cutting costs and if you ask for cholesterol values that may be all that gets run!) . Of special interest are : triglycerides, liver enzymes, thyroid levels especially T-4 and TSH, and any values having to do with pancreatic function. These can become upset with drastic changes in dietary habits and need an eye kept on them.

Measure your bodyfat percentage. Set a limit to how high you will let it go. Remeasure it every 10 pounds you gain. See how many pounds are muscle and how many are fat. A good bargain is 1 pound of muscle for every 2-3 lbs of fat.

If you are a master lifter, consider your medications and consult your doctor about the effect weight gain may have on any of them especially heart meds. Your dosage may need to be adjusted.

Remember that the weight gain is to be temporary. You should plan a reducing diet to follow at a specified time in your training. This is where you attempt to maintain most of the new strength you amassed during the bulking phase while lowering your body fat to the same level you started at. You are not training to get stronger, only to hold the strength you have while dropping the excess. Commit yourself to the goal of returning to your starting level of bodyfat and see how much of the new strength you're kept. If you diet right, it should be above 80%. So that is your true gain. The gain you keep after gaining and losing the excess bodyfat is what counts. If you gain 20 lbs on your bench and lose 15 when you diet, you missed the point. If you gain 20 lbs on the bench and keep 15 (16) you've achieved something and done it correctly. Now repeat this process as necessary!! I suggest that you only hold your weight heavy for no longer than 5-6 months before you diet back down. Each time you repeat this process, you will hold more strength and have more muscle mass than before. Avoid staying heavy too long. It is only temporary!

These things will help you minimize the risks associated with the rigors of body weight manipulation. Competitive sports all have risks. Every highschooler who puts on a football helmet on Friday night and knocks heads with the cross-town rivals takes the risk of spinal injury. Risks are unavoidable and usually increase with the level of play. Just be responsible. Take care of yourself within the risks. Do what you can to minimize them. Pay attention. If you don't watch your blood pressure, how do you know if you might not be begging for a stroke? For Christmas sake, at least know what you're levels are. You can always decide to do what is right for you. Continue or stop. Or continue on a different course. But at least do the best you can to stay as healthy as you can.

Remember: If you want to beat the man, you've got to out -eat the man!

Good eating,

J.M.

Sidior
05-05-2006, 03:06 PM
great post

leveque
05-05-2006, 04:42 PM
Also, add lots of condiments to your food. Carry mayo with you and add lots of it to everything. Same goes for Thousand Island dressing and chocolate sauce. Be creative and never eat anything that you don't add calories to in some way. Melt provolone cheese over your pasta. Put ranch dressing on your pizza. Dip potato chips in honey. I don't care what sick and twisted combinations you come up with, as long as you find it palatable. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've eaten. ( Try a bowl full of peanut butter smothered in maple syrup and a stick of butter in the microwave for 30 seconds. Lay two Hershey bars over it to melt and you'll just start to understand.)




Who wrote this...Homer Simpson?

Just kidding, I think it's a great article, and I am going to take some of these ideas into consideration. I would love to gain even 10 pounds.

Sensei
05-07-2006, 02:10 AM
Who wrote this...Homer Simpson?

Just kidding, I think it's a great article, and I am going to take some of these ideas into consideration. I would love to gain even 10 pounds.
It is gross, isn't it? It definately worked for JM's bench - most people won't want to go to this extreme, but the part about discipline is all-important. Most people who "can't gain weight" just simply aren't trying hard enough.

Gutz981
05-07-2006, 07:53 AM
I'll have to say great post. But the soda thing I really don't agree with. And the whole candy bar deal. But to each his own.

shootermcgavin7
05-07-2006, 08:33 AM
YES! "Dirty" bulking is awesome.

Clifford Gillmore
05-07-2006, 08:51 AM
Printed and filed. Thanks for the great post!

235orbust
05-07-2006, 09:37 AM
odd how he didnt bring up anything about the importance of protein...

WORLD
05-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Nice post. I definately needed that.

Sensei
05-07-2006, 12:01 PM
Printed and filed. Thanks for the great post!
Glad to see I'm not the only nerd who does that with good stuff they find!

Stumprrp
05-07-2006, 12:12 PM
great post!!

You wouldn't believe some of the things I've eaten. ( Try a bowl full of peanut butter smothered in maple syrup and a stick of butter in the microwave for 30 seconds. Lay two Hershey bars over it to melt and you'll just start to understand.)

OOOMMMGGGG im doing it when im ready to bulk

AlecB
05-07-2006, 12:12 PM
Dont forget this advice - "If you're not sure whether you should eat something, just rub it on a piece of paper. If the paper turns clear, its your 'window to weight gain!' "

Dr Nick Riviera

Turnip
05-07-2006, 11:27 PM
So should i follow this advice? Can someone tear this article apart and tell me if theres anything wrong with it please. :alcoholic

HILL
05-08-2006, 01:54 AM
Good read for all those 'HARD GAINERS'

Davidelmo
05-08-2006, 05:20 AM
1lb of muscle with 3lbs of fat is meant to be a good deal?

That's horrible.. you'd have to gain 40lbs to add 10lbs of muscle :(

That to me just sounds like you're bulking too quickly.. I'd prefer a slower, higher quality bulk

Clifford Gillmore
05-08-2006, 05:28 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only nerd who does that with good stuff they find!


This should be an essential habit of any information driven meathead!

Sensei
05-08-2006, 05:36 AM
1lb of muscle with 3lbs of fat is meant to be a good deal?

That's horrible.. you'd have to gain 40lbs to add 10lbs of muscle :(

That to me just sounds like you're bulking too quickly.. I'd prefer a slower, higher quality bulk
Weight is weight to a SHW powerlifter like JM Blakely. Weight will improve your leverages in the squat and the bench press whether it's muscle or fat. Again, it's not necessarily something everyone here should follow, but the ideas about discipline and consistency are solid pieces that everyone who's ever complained about "not-getting-any-bigger-no-matter-how-much-I-eat" should read again and again.

Bigfootedfreak
05-11-2006, 10:03 PM
I cant wait to be a fatass!

DumbellDude
05-13-2006, 07:32 AM
oh yeah.. thanks sensei

Clifford Gillmore
05-13-2006, 08:06 AM
Today I had,
1 double chicken breast, bacon and egg toasted sandwich (work cook up)
3 pies, about 2lbs worth
3/4 gallon of milk
1 breakfast style bar that was sitting around at work, I have no idea how long it has been there but damn it - its gone now
1/2 container of Ice cream
1lbs Rib eye steak
3 cups of brocolli
2 apples


In comparison to the application of this article, I could have gotten much more in. Be it pre made shakes/weight gainers, meals and such - or simply having more convienent food sources around. Worth thinking about.

smalls
05-20-2006, 01:14 AM
1lb of muscle with 3lbs of fat is meant to be a good deal?

That's horrible.. you'd have to gain 40lbs to add 10lbs of muscle :(

That to me just sounds like you're bulking too quickly.. I'd prefer a slower, higher quality bulk


I take lots of steroids and eat cleaner than 99% of most people and at 247lbs I highly doubt I will be gaining muscle at a better ratio then that. It all depends on genetics, where you are and where you come from. Gaining muscle after putting on 100lbs (or more for some powerlifters) is very difficult. These guys are on the high end of where there body will allow them to be.


I can eat 8400 cals a day and not go dirty. I think dirty bulks are highly overated and kinda nasty. But whatever, they get the job done.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-20-2006, 01:18 AM
Drink regular soda pop (possibly caffeine free) and whole milk. Never drink any fluids that don't have calories. No tea without sugar, no coffee without cream and sugar, no diet beverages whatsoever. No plain water! Canned soda pop is an excellent source of purified water. But it also has precious calories.No. I think purified water is an excellent source of purified water. WTF is up with this soda crap?

ottomanart
05-20-2006, 02:44 AM
That is sick and discusting inall the right ways..... Not that I think I would actually be able to do that... but it is an interesting idea just the same!!!

Adding weight means adding strength...(???) is this ture with any weight? You have to be puting on a bit of muscle too right!!! Like I said I am not really intersted in adding whipped cream and sprinkles to my baked potatoes or anthing just yet but I am curious.

ottomanart
05-20-2006, 04:31 AM
Today I had,
1 double chicken breast, bacon and egg toasted sandwich (work cook up)
3 pies, about 2lbs worth
3/4 gallon of milk
1 breakfast style bar that was sitting around at work, I have no idea how long it has been there but damn it - its gone now
1/2 container of Ice cream
1lbs Rib eye steak
3 cups of brocolli
2 apples

Not only am I astounded that all of that fit in your colon... but also impressed.:bow:
I am too small and haven't figured out how to prep my body for that kind of intake yet. "Soon... yes, soon my precious"...

Sensei
05-20-2006, 08:45 AM
That is sick and discusting inall the right ways..... Not that I think I would actually be able to do that... but it is an interesting idea just the same!!!

Adding weight means adding strength...(???) is this ture with any weight? You have to be puting on a bit of muscle too right!!!I've heard people say that "fat doesn't move weight", and I suppose that's true, but it does help. If I place a 3" slab of fat on your chest and tell you to bench press, chances are you'll be able to bench more than normal. If I throw a 5" thick belt around your gut and tell you to squat, (once you get used to the movement) you'll probably be able to squat more too. You have to be strong, but being heavy helps you move heavy weights.

betastas
05-20-2006, 09:16 AM
No. I think purified water is an excellent source of purified water. WTF is up with this soda crap?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

Anyone here see a resemblance to the Dave Tate project? We all know how his body turned out on this diet.

Of course, he got it done too.

Sidior
05-20-2006, 12:06 PM
No. I think purified water is an excellent source of purified water. WTF is up with this soda crap?

purified water has no cals, soda does.

Rogue
05-20-2006, 03:28 PM
Great post!! motivational and also insightfull!!

Billy E.
07-23-2006, 10:17 PM
No. I think purified water is an excellent source of purified water. WTF is up with this soda crap?

For real I was thinking the same thing. And if you didnt drink a damn 12 pack of soda and 5 candy bars you wouldnt have to worry about your chorlestrol and all that. eat healthy stuff that has calories and DRINK WATER for crying out loud. and NO POTATO CHIPS. They are FULL of chorlestrol. idk but i dont like this article all though there were "some" good things.

munkey
07-24-2006, 08:21 AM
For real I was thinking the same thing. And if you didnt drink a damn 12 pack of soda and 5 candy bars you wouldnt have to worry about your chorlestrol and all that. eat healthy stuff that has calories and DRINK WATER for crying out loud. and NO POTATO CHIPS. They are FULL of chorlestrol. idk but i dont like this article all though there were "some" good things.

It might be a diet I would have tried like 20 years ago....

More for a young adult with no health problems like high blood pressure or cholestrol.

Sensei
07-24-2006, 01:44 PM
Ok... ONCE AGAIN, this is a diet for someone looking to push up heavy, heavy weights. NOT a diet to improve your health...

munkey
07-25-2006, 08:20 AM
Ok... ONCE AGAIN, this is a diet for someone looking to push up heavy, heavy weights. NOT a diet to improve your health...

That's for sure...;)

Sensei
11-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Bumped for all the newbies who are looking to gain weight. One of my all-time favorite articles and not because I happened to post it.

PGreezy
11-15-2006, 11:55 PM
I dont know about this weight moves weight idea. I know plenty of fatasses weighing in at well over 300lbs that cant even move have their bodywieght. Maybe after like 10 yrs of gaining muscle it would work. But sacrificing your health to lift more weight sounds stupid to me. Living long and healthy sounds like the better idea to me.

SpecialK
11-16-2006, 06:22 AM
I dont know about this weight moves weight idea. I know plenty of fatasses weighing in at well over 300lbs that cant even move have their bodywieght. Maybe after like 10 yrs of gaining muscle it would work. But sacrificing your health to lift more weight sounds stupid to me. Living long and healthy sounds like the better idea to me.

Yeah, this looks like a last-ditch effort for the rail-thin guys out there who want to get bigger. Unless you have a metabolism so fast that you need consume 7k+ calories to gain weight, I think most people would be better off saving their health and sticking to the foods listed in the "what bodybuilders eat" thread, and tracking on Fitday to figure out how much to eat.

Competitive powerlifters are a whole different story though. I guess if you are a SHW and want to move more weight at any cost, you gotta do what you gotta do...

Beast
11-16-2006, 10:54 PM
But sacrificing your health to lift more weight sounds stupid to me. Living long and healthy sounds like the better idea to me.
It is stupid. Doing this type of diet just creates bad habits... these are the guys who were muscular when they were young and turn into complete fatasses years later.

But, to each his own.

Beast
11-16-2006, 10:57 PM
Anyone here see a resemblance to the Dave Tate project? We all know how his body turned out on this diet.
Exactly. He ate like that for years, realized how bad it was for him, and decided to do something about it. Good thing he's working with Berardi. He looks lean and mean now.

Vapour Trails
11-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Good article for a PLer, terrible for everyone else.

I want to be strong, but athletic strong, not I can't jog a mile I'm so fat strong.

Stumprrp
11-18-2006, 10:33 AM
yes, good for a PL but your looking for serious health problems. lol. its not that hard to eat 4k a day clean.

Sensei
12-31-2006, 08:17 AM
I'm bumping this because it's an awesome article and most of you are missing the point entirely...

imageD
01-01-2007, 07:21 PM
Horrible article for any type of novice bodybuilder. Eating crap will only make you look like crap.

I am convinced that the #1 mistake people make is bulking up by overeating on dirty crap thinking they are getting "bigger" when in fact it is all fat.

The bulking diet should be no different than a cutting diet, except for the amount of food per setting. Would you drink regular soda on a cut? Honey? Pop Tarts?

Sensei
01-01-2007, 08:50 PM
Horrible article for any type of novice bodybuilder. Eating crap will only make you look like crap.

I am convinced that the #1 mistake people make is bulking up by overeating on dirty crap thinking they are getting "bigger" when in fact it is all fat.

The bulking diet should be no different than a cutting diet, except for the amount of food per setting. Would you drink regular soda on a cut? Honey? Pop Tarts?
See, this is exactly my point about people not getting the article - YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY!

*JM Blakely is a not a bodybuilder. He is heavyweight powerlifting/benchpress specialist. He gains weight for a specific purpose - to lift more weight. That said, he carries more muscle on his body than 99% of the forum members here (and not at a high % of bodyfat)

*How many times have you heard someone say "No matter how much I eat, I just can't gain weight!"? I've heard it, literally hundreds of times from high school kids and even adults. It isn't metabolism. It isn't genetics. THEY JUST AREN'T EATING ENOUGH TO GAIN WEIGHT.

*Here's the main point that you're missing:
The only way to be absolutely certain that you are getting the most out of your workout is to eat more than you need for recovery, repair, and growth. You will begin to see a bit of bodyfat start to accumulate. Please don't misunderstand me and think I'm telling everyone to get obesely fat. I'm only suggesting a light layer of "winter weight" or a "softening" You should never let your bodyfat percentage rise above unhealthy levels, and never put on what you can't get off.

This is what I call bathing the cells in nutrients. You give them all they need and then a little bit extra which you can see usually around your middle. Remember; it's OK to put it on to gain strength if you also plan to take it off later and maintain your new strength level when you diet. Just make sure you get around to dieting sooner or later! This way every workout has the nutrients it needs to give it the chance to be fully effective.
Whatever. Look, you can focus on the few paragraphs where he talks about eating calorie-dense foods (and junk food) to meet caloric goals, or you can read it for the main message which is to give your body what's necessary to meet your caloric needs... If more people would understand this, we'd see a lot more people at the forum who are not perpetually cutting and BIG, not "wannabe big".

imageD
01-01-2007, 09:10 PM
See, this is exactly my point about people not getting the article - YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY!

*JM Blakely is a not a bodybuilder. He is heavyweight powerlifting/benchpress specialist. He gains weight for a specific purpose - to lift more weight. That said, he carries more muscle on his body than 99% of the forum members here (and not at a high % of bodyfat)

*How many times have you heard someone say "No matter how much I eat, I just can't gain weight!"? I've heard it, literally hundreds of times from high school kids and even adults. It isn't metabolism. It isn't genetics. THEY JUST AREN'T EATING ENOUGH TO GAIN WEIGHT.

*Here's the main point that you're missing:
Whatever. Look, you can focus on the few paragraphs where he talks about eating calorie-dense foods (and junk food) to meet caloric goals, or you can read it for the main message which is to give your body what's necessary to meet your caloric needs... If more people would understand this, we'd see a lot more people at the forum who are not perpetually cutting and BIG, not "wannabe big".

I got the message from the article 100%, he makes his point very clearly. However, I believe that is simply not good information for bodybuilders. If you aren't gaining, you obviously need to up your calories, but you need to choose your food wisely. For example, add a tbsp of olive oil, or 2tbsp of PB to every meal instead of drinking a coke with 40grams of sugar, or honey, or mayonaise.

Maybe this should go in the powerlifting forum?:burger:

Sensei
01-02-2007, 07:19 AM
Veggies - I rarely eat them.

Tell me why I should reconsider veggies.

Veggies - nutrient dense, but I would rather just take my vitamin supplements and fiber supplement. From time to time I will buy fresh heads of brocolli and eat that, but I just dont see the point since it has so few calories.
I don't think that someone who says this in response to Built's suggestion to eat more veggies should be giving advice in the nutrition forum at all, let alone critiquing articles...

skakid613
03-02-2007, 02:58 PM
yea but i dont want a 3" slab of fat to make me bench more i want a slab of muscle

Bupp
03-02-2007, 03:00 PM
Good article

Roddy
04-10-2007, 11:13 PM
I just found this amazing article, and in these moments of hunger and reading, i just down a bottle of Ranch.

Questor
08-28-2007, 03:58 PM
Bump because more people need to read and understand this knowledge.

RhodeHouse
08-28-2007, 09:28 PM
The article is brilliant. Stop crying about "dirty bulking" and a tablesppon of olive oil. All of you guys who cry about gaining some fat while you bulk - keep being small. I don't care. You HAVE TO GAIN FAT TO GAIN MUSCLE! JM Blakely has his PhD in some crazy science. I'm not exactly sure what it is. For all you guys that live your diet life by what some skinny little bastard writes, you might wanna listen to this guy. He a BIG, STRONG bastard that has done all the reading and done all the eating and lifting. One of the few who has been there and done that, and, he read about it.

If you sit there and whine about your health, I can bet my right nut that you have never truly competed for anything at the highest level. I know you don't truly understand the meaning of commitment. Commitment to achieving a goal you have set for yourself. You're the guy that looks at big guys and says, "he uses drugs" or, "he's got good genetics. That's why he's so big/strong" I looked at those guys and made the same comments. Then I decided I wanted to be one of those guys. Here I am. I'm the guy you watch at the gym. I'm the one who gets questioned about drugs and all that other BS. JM is a genius. If you have ever seen JM in person or in pictures, he's an impressive looking guy. Even when he was over 300lbs - very impressive.

On with my rant - all you guys that don't believe weight moves weight - I bet you're weak. Sorry! Why do you think Strongman competitors and PLers are so big? Where has all the common knowledge gone? Why are we such a stupid society nowadays?

Some people get it - and most don't. I bet the people that get it are trying to think how they could make it work for them. Those that don't are ripping his genius apart.

Good 'ole Max Effort eating! Sensei - great post!

Con
08-28-2007, 10:54 PM
Sensei, am I correct in saying that this is really only aimed towards people who want to become strong as fast as possible?

Sensei
08-28-2007, 11:07 PM
RhodeHouse,
Thanks. JM Blakely is a freaking genius. ..and for those of you who are thinking "What? He writes an article about candy bars and you call him a 'genius'?", no that's not why - it's because he has a knack of telling people the truth in a no-BS way that is easy to understand. I read his other articles over the years in PLUSA and he, seriously, changed the way I looked at the sport. Amazing. I know he made a DVD - hmmm, might have to make that purchase sometime soon if it's still available.

Con,
I'm not really sure what you're getting at with the "as fast as possible" angle... Getting strong is going to be hard no matter what. Gaining 50-100lbs on a "clean, slow bulk" just doesn't happen at all for most people...

sharkall2003
08-28-2007, 11:15 PM
Sensei, am I correct in saying that this is really only aimed towards people who want to become strong as fast as possible?

Isn't that the goal of everyone? I mean, if you're goal is not to get stronger faster then why lift?

SpecialK
08-29-2007, 07:30 AM
Sensei, do you yourself follow this diet?

I just feel like you can eat big without putting all that extra crap into your body. You can get your 5000+ calories per day from healthy foods like the stuff found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread, and your CVS will probably thank you later in life.

SpecialK
08-29-2007, 07:31 AM
Isn't that the goal of everyone? I mean, if you're goal is not to get stronger faster then why lift?

I think they meant strong without regard to extra fat gained.

Con
08-29-2007, 07:48 AM
I think they meant strong without regard to extra fat gained.

Basically.

Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?

sharkall2003
08-29-2007, 08:59 AM
Basically.

Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?

I don't have a study for this, but it's easier to gain muscle eating more than just a little bit more at a time. You also build a lot more strength, so when you do go on a cut you can keep your lifts up and keep a lot of the muslce you have built.

SpecialK
08-29-2007, 09:04 AM
I don't have a study for this, but it's easier to gain muscle eating more than just a little bit more at a time. You also build a lot more strength, so when you do go on a cut you can keep your lifts up and keep a lot of the muslce you have built.

I think the two of you are arguing two different points here:

1. clean vs. dirty bulking
2. eating way over maintenance vs. eating a little bit over maintenance

These are two different things you have control over.

The article seems to be concerned with point 1, and advocates eating lots of unhealthy foods to reach your goal.

My point is, no matter whether you like to eat 100 calories over maintenance or 10,000 calories over maintenance, there is no excuse to eat all the crap outlined in that article when you could just as easily build a diet of relatively healthy foods found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread. I just think your general health would be better off in the long run.

I guess if you were dirt poor, needed 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, and didn't really care about long term health, then the approach in that article might be best.

Con
08-29-2007, 09:19 AM
Actually Im only arguing, if you want to even call it arguing, about point two. I personally enjoy some junk food, regardless of my caloric intake. Ij ust dont see how a little crap will ruin a good exercise regimen with an overall sound nutrition plan.

Shark - I unfortunately cannot speak from experience, but from reading, I have the same premise about that. However, I believe some people(guess I shouldnt be concerned with anyone but myself eh?) might take it to an extreme. Its one thing to gain some bf, its another to become obese, thinking you are going to be "jacked".

Sensei
08-29-2007, 09:32 AM
I think the two of you are arguing two different points here:

1. clean vs. dirty bulking
2. eating way over maintenance vs. eating a little bit over maintenance

These are two different things you have control over.

The article seems to be concerned with point 1, and advocates eating lots of unhealthy foods to reach your goal.No, it's not 'advocating' eating crap - it's advocating eating over maintenance. If you are a skinny bastage who complains that you can't gain weight no matter what, the answer is right there - you need to eat a lot more.... All of this has been discussed and I'm sick of repeating it.


My point is, no matter whether you like to eat 100 calories over maintenance or 10,000 calories over maintenance, there is no excuse to eat all the crap outlined in that article when you could just as easily build a diet of relatively healthy foods found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread.

I guess if you were dirt poor, needed 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, and didn't really care about long term health, then the approach in that article might be best.You probably don't think so, but you're knitpicking. Of course you could eat 10,000 calories over maintenance eating cleanly, but who does? How hard can you push your calorie intake eating nothing but clean foods? I'm seriously asking because I just don't see it happening unless you are a pro-BBer and even then, I'd be willing to bet many of them eat their fair share of junk in the off-season.

Somewhat related, I don't know a lot of really big people (actually, I know none) who have the patience to sit down and type out ALL the food that they eat at fitday... I'm not against doing it, mind you, I just don't think it's necessary if your goal is to gain weight.

I've said this at least twice before and JM Blakely makes a point of saying that this is not something that you should do long-term... it is to break out of a plateau.

I hope everyone at these forums knows by now that I HATE the constant cycle of bulking and cutting that is prevalent here and at most BB forums. I think most young people would be so much better off if they learned to eat better and more, trained hard and consistently and just stuck with that - instead, they are counting every calorie and trying to have ripped muscles @ 6', 150 and constantly looking for the next sweet-ass routine that will propel their bench from 135 to 140...


Sensei, do you yourself follow this diet?I gained about 50lbs on a force-feed diet to get to 210 about 7 years ago and guess what, the weights I was using shot-up. Would I recommend people to gain 50lbs in a year if they want to do PL or get strong? Depends on the person, I guess.
Right now, I weigh about 200 and I'm happy where I am, but if I was trying to push up my bench or squat (and I didn't mind moving up a weight class) or if my goal was to weigh 250, you can bet I'd be eating A LOT more and not all of it would be "clean" calories.

Con
08-29-2007, 09:39 AM
I hope everyone at these forums knows by now that I HATE the constant cycle of bulking and cutting that is prevalent here and at most BB forums. I think most young people would be so much better off if they learned to eat better and more, trained hard and consistently and just stuck with that - instead, they are counting every calorie and trying to have ripped muscles @ 6', 150 and constantly looking for the next sweet-ass routine that will propel their bench from 135 to 140...


Guess I fall into this category.

Im not trying to argue anything sensei, but isnt learning to eat more and eating to the point of sickness two different things?

Personally Im in the process of learning to eat more, but could easily put away twice as many cals. I just choose to take a slower route I suppose. The memories of being fat will probably always be there.

Im pretty sure I asked this, but just want to make sure: when would you consider someone ready to think about cutting weight/leaning out?

Im assuming its when you are lots stronger and bigger than when you started? For someone people Id think that would have them at an uncomfortable posittion in terms of appearance. For those people, probably myself included with them, Im all for a slower, more gradual approach.

Sensei
08-29-2007, 09:43 AM
Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?What do you mean I'm "all for" the approach? I never said everyone should do it... I posted it because it's a great article and a lot of people here could learn something from it, not because I think everyone should follow it to the letter....

As a far as eating over maintenance (and this has been discussed) "measuring" your caloric needs is a crap-shoot. Eating A LOT will leave no question as to whether you are eating enough or not.

Con
08-29-2007, 10:26 AM
Ok, sorry for the "all for" comment. It just seems like you stand behind(better?) this approach and I was curious as to why. I think I understand and wil drop the discussion.

I respect you a lot sensei, but was just trying to understand something that seemed "foreign" to me.

bigmoney
08-29-2007, 10:39 AM
I love reading this article. It always helps me when I feel like a bitch when deciding between lean meat or a greasy pizza.

Excellent post Rhodes.

IZich
08-29-2007, 11:03 AM
But I looooooove teh abz! :( :p

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 12:53 PM
This is a good article for all those kids bitching about never gaining anything.

If you know how to actually count calories you shouldn't need to go to such extremes as this article. Macro nutrients are just as important as total calories.

Sensei
08-29-2007, 07:04 PM
I give up. Some will NEVER get it and that's fine, I guess but if that's you, could you withhold judgement and just shut the hell up?

Alright, if one really needed to eat 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, then I will concede that eating 10,000 calories of clean food would be quite difficult and expensive. Substituting some cheap and "less than healthy" alternatives would make sense. But really, how many people here honestly need to eat 10k+ per day to gain? Yes I know there are probably a handful, but i would guess the vast majority do not.
K,
You're the one who brought up the "10,000 calories over maintenance", not me... Jeezus.

RhodeHouse
08-30-2007, 11:01 AM
I tried the butter, maple syrup, melted candy bar thing! Oh wow! I truly feel sorry for you guys who worry about eating junk food. I wouldn't eat this everyday, that's for sure, but WOW! This fat kid slept like a bear last night.

Stumprrp
08-30-2007, 12:41 PM
you bastard rhode ive been wanting to try that!! hahaha.

Sensei
09-25-2007, 05:30 PM
Bumped for fun... ;)

RhodeHouse
09-25-2007, 06:38 PM
JM is still a genius. GFH!

HP666
09-28-2007, 04:13 PM
SENSEI - thank you for this awesome article. As someone who has power lifted in the past I understand and appreciate everything said.

The guys who are knocking Sensie, or the article, or its author, read it again, then maybe again, and try and understand the angle that it's coming from. Understand it. No one said this is the diet that Ronnie Colemen should use 2 weeks out from Olympia. There is a purpose, try and understand it.

HahnB
09-28-2007, 09:29 PM
This article is 100% accurate and pretty awesome if you care zero about your appearance. It also sums up the very complicated area of human genetics into a simplistic view that seems to be good for his article and nothing else. I have a few friends that are overweight who weigh more than me and I eat much more than them on a daily basis. Butter and maple syrup, what a great diet.

Again, a 300lb power lifter should not have the same diet as a body builder. The two are night and day. I'd rather be at a lighter weight and 8 or 9% than a weight 30 or 40lbs more and 15% + bf. To me, being lean is just as important as being big.

The problem I have with advice like his is that he generalizes and it's stupid. Everyone should NOT do the same thing. How hard is that to figure out for someone who has a Phd? Everyone has different goals, therefore everyone is going to want to take the most efficient route to reach their individual goal. Telling everyone they should eat the way he does is idiotic, I don't care who the guy is.

Yea the article was written from a perspective, but he never says that. He never says "don't eat this way if you want to be healthy and add on quality weight". It's misleading and really bad advice for young people that are relatively lean to start out with and want to improve their physique.

Sensei
09-28-2007, 09:32 PM
The problem I have with advice like his is that he generalizes and it's ****ing stupid. Everyone should NOT do the same thing. How hard is that to figure out for someone who has a Phd? Everyone has different goals, therefore everyone is going to want to take the most efficient route to reach their individual goal. Telling everyone they should eat the way he does is idiotic, I don't care who the guy is.*sigh*... It was written for POWERLIFTING USA - it not like he wrote it for Men's Health...

vdizenzo
09-28-2007, 10:32 PM
Man, you guys should have seen JM. He was absolutely jacked! He competed in every class from 220 to Superheavyweight in just about a year. The dude was a mad scientist genius. He was a master at gaining and losing weight. There are many people who have trouble gaining weight and no I am not advocating this as a life long diet, nor was JM. However, when I was going for my 600 raw bench press I could just not get it done at 308 (by the way for you health nuts my bp is 116/68 and have never heard a peep from doctors about my bloodwork). I knew I needed to push my weight to get that bench. Mass moves mass!

At 308 my diet and supplementation were pretty good (never did cardio--not that I am proud of it), but to get up over 320 I had to adopt measures like JM wrote about. I dropped my protein shakes for about six weeks and just ate anything and everything. I looked to eat the most calorie dense food I could When I was full I ate more. I can't tell you all how many times I would puke up in my mouth and would swallow it back down. When all was said and done I weighed in at 328.5 and I benched the 600 in a competition pretty easily.

That was my goal, that's what I did, and for me it was worth it. The info JM discussed in many ways is what I used. This is not for everyone, but it can be useful. By the way, I dropped 38 of the pounds in ten weeks by just cleaning up my diet, increasing gpp, and adding in cardio. Take it for what it's worth boys and girls. Good luck with all of your goals.

shootermcgavin7
09-28-2007, 11:56 PM
*sigh*... It was written for POWERLIFTING USA - it not like he wrote it for Men's Health...


I thought I read about it in the Little Toned Website mentioned in Fuzzy's thread.

No?

HahnB
09-29-2007, 12:26 AM
*sigh*... It was written for POWERLIFTING USA - it not like he wrote it for Men's Health...

That may be true, but some people have been giving advice like this to everyone lately. Like smalls said, if you're 300lbs and trying to gain weight that's different, but most people aren't. And just for fun, I don't see how anyone can carry mayo around with them without it spoiling:)


(by the way for you health nuts my bp is 116/68 and have never heard a peep from doctors about my bloodwork). .

This may be true, but if you weigh 308lbs for an extended period of time you can be sure it will have health consequences, especially if we're talking about a period of 5, 10 or 15 years.

Each person should choose their own path, but at the same time we should all respect the fact that there isn't one solution to everyones goals. I understand the fact that my diet isn't the best for someone who is trying to get to 320lbs, just as a 300lb powerlifters diet might not be the best for a body builder.

Sensei
09-29-2007, 07:20 AM
That may be true, but some people have been giving advice like this to everyone lately. Like smalls said, if you're 300lbs and trying to gain weight that's different, but most people aren't. And just for fun, I don't see how anyone can carry mayo around with them without it spoiling:)
Hahn,
There is no "may be" about it - it WAS written for a target audience of powerlifter.

I posted it here because I got sick of seeing so many posts asking "Why can't I gain weight?" and every reply being something along the lines of "Get an account at FitDay, track every calorie, eat 500 calories over maintenance".

Read the thread.

Stumprrp
09-29-2007, 08:13 AM
hahn is very against heavyweights and massive eating, but to each's own

has anyone tried that chocolate thing besides rhodes? lol, its pretty insane, i think id throw up if i ate it. ill stick with steaks and cheese fries.

Sensei
09-29-2007, 09:26 AM
I like sweets now and again, but there's no way I could stomach some of that. Now, a pound or two of peanut M&Ms I could mow through pretty quickly...

HahnB
09-29-2007, 09:53 AM
hahn is very against heavyweights and massive eating, but to each's own

has anyone tried that chocolate thing besides rhodes? lol, its pretty insane, i think id throw up if i ate it. ill stick with steaks and cheese fries.

I'm really not against anyways lifestyle, I'm just for the right advice for the right person.

sharkall2003
09-29-2007, 11:55 AM
hahn is very against heavyweights and massive eating, but to each's own

has anyone tried that chocolate thing besides rhodes? lol, its pretty insane, i think id throw up if i ate it. ill stick with steaks and cheese fries.

When I wanted to gain weight I went to Hardees. Beef and cheese fries are the way to go. But you'll **** like you wouldn't believe. It projectiles out!

vdizenzo
09-29-2007, 07:42 PM
This may be true, but if you weigh 308lbs for an extended period of time you can be sure it will have health consequences, especially if we're talking about a period of 5, 10 or 15 years.Each person should choose their own path, but at the same time we should all respect the fact that there isn't one solution to everyones goals.* I understand the fact that my diet isn't the best for someone who is trying to get to 320lbs, just as a 300lb powerlifters diet might not be the best for a body builder.

Damn, you are so arrogant! Mine was a post from experience for those that might be interested. Why don't you just mind your own business. When I need advice on being a know it all I will give you a shout.

HahnB
09-29-2007, 07:56 PM
Damn, you are so arrogant! Mine was a post from experience for those that might be interested. Why don't you just mind your own business. When I need advice on being a know it all I will give you a shout.

I didn't realize that pointing out the obvious made anyone seem like a "know it all". Are you on dope? How the hell is it arrogant to state that weighing over 300lbs for year and years is unhealthy?

Sensei
09-29-2007, 08:06 PM
I didn't realize that pointing out the obvious made anyone seem like a "know it all". Are you on dope? How the hell is it arrogant to state that weighing over 300lbs for year and years is unhealthy?If you have to ask...

Maybe you didn't read post #66...

I give up. Some will NEVER get it and that's fine, I guess but if that's you, could you withhold judgement and just shut the hell up?

smalls
09-30-2007, 01:11 AM
Where did hahn judge anyone in that post? In fact he seemed pretty open in stating everyone has different goals and that's fine, just know the other persons goals before giving advice as that would seem more beneficial, but I havent been following this whole thread. I understand it's aimed at powerlifters, I still dont see the need for totally novice "powerlifters" to use rediculous eating habits to put up numbers that nobodies at most any gym are repping.

I understand eating anything and everything to gain when you at the upper eschelon of your sport, as some here are. Your already in the SHW and you need everything you can get. But giving that same advice to people putting up 315 and 405 while already overweight at 20 years old seems seems a little overboard. But hey to each their own, if you need to eat 2 baconators and a large coke to bench more than the other high school seniors I guess that sorta makes sense. Rhodes has already posted his diet and how clean it is, he already stated that eating fast food or junk is an add on only when necassary. Yet it seems like young guys think it's some powerlifting staple and I think it seems misguided, and possibly unhealthy. But again, to each his own. Just throwing my 2 cents around.


The main thing I dont understand is how everyone gets so worked up lately. It's the internet and it's just a bunch of opinions. State yours, read others, but getting emotionally involved seems like a waste of calories.

Sensei
09-30-2007, 06:36 AM
I get a little worked up when a thread someone starts gets clogged up with people who use straw hat rhetoric to trounce an otherwise perfectly reasonable and wise article...

I try very hard to stay out of most threads dealing with diet because I know damn well that I'll disagree with most of the advice given. I also keep my mouth shut about topics I know nothing about - you will never see my reply in a thread entitled "Need Bigger Guns". Just a thought.

RhodeHouse
09-30-2007, 08:30 AM
There goes Hahn being a Dr again.

vdizenzo
09-30-2007, 08:48 AM
I didn't realize that pointing out the obvious made anyone seem like a "know it all". Are you on dope? How the hell is it arrogant to state that weighing over 300lbs for year and years is unhealthy?

I notice how you did not discuss how you could not stay out of my business. Or how I have been on both ends of the spectrum and you have not. I could care less about your unhealthy comment. I'll let my doctors decide that, not some keyboard cowboy. And yes, I am on dope.



I leave you with this for your next post...:soapbox:

HahnB
09-30-2007, 08:49 AM
I'm not judging anyone. I simply stated a fact. I guess the couple of powerlifters on wbb know more than the entire medical community has in the last several centuries. My bad. I was way out of line pointing out that weighing in excess of 300lbs is unhealthy if maintained for a long period of time. There I go again, using my crazy and insane reasoning to come to the whacko conclusion that being overweight can lead to health problems.

I never said it was stupid to be a heavy weight, but when someone says that there are no health consequences of weighing 300lbs during their lifetime I'm going to say something because that's ignorant.

vdizenzo
09-30-2007, 09:04 AM
I'm not judging anyone. I simply stated a fact. I guess the couple of powerlifters on wbb know more than the entire medical community has in the last several centuries. My bad. I was way out of line pointing out that weighing in excess of 300lbs is unhealthy if maintained for a long period of time. There I go again, using my crazy and insane reasoning to come to the whacko conclusion that being overweight can lead to health problems.

I never said it was stupid to be a heavy weight, but when someone says that there are no health consequences of weighing 300lbs during their lifetime I'm going to say something because that's ignorant.

Did I ever say there were no health consequences. You need to read my original post. I made a comment from experience and you just had to stick your two cents in. You have a serious complex.

RhodeHouse
09-30-2007, 12:21 PM
Did I ever say there were no health consequences. You need to read my original post. I made a comment from experience and you just had to stick your two cents in. You have a serious complex.

He's just a little guy. But, he's read books and looked at studies and followed Johnny Jackleg's training and diet advice. I'm gonna start listening to you, Hahn. I've been wrong with my whole approach. Lead me, oh wise one of the iron.

brihead301
10-01-2007, 07:35 AM
Lol, this forum is the funniest forum ever. I just joined about 3 weeks ago, and all I hear is ARGUING - ALL THE TIME. I LOVE IT!!!!!

Sensei
10-01-2007, 07:47 AM
Lol, this forum is the funniest forum ever. I just joined about 3 weeks ago, and all I hear is ARGUING - ALL THE TIME. I LOVE IT!!!!!You're new so we'll cut you some slack, but you're wrong. Unless people are obstinate about topics they know nothing about, discussions are generally civil.

RhodeHouse
10-01-2007, 10:46 AM
You are definately new. This place is great for good information. This is just a touchy subject, most of the time. We have the "Count Your Calories Company" vs. the "GFH Brigade".

brihead301
10-01-2007, 01:09 PM
I know there's some good info here. It just seemed to me like people are always fighting though. It doesn't bother me either way. I answer peoples questions, and they help me out too so it's all good. This forum definately seems to be more of a powerlifting forum rather then a bodybuilding forum, which I like.

Torrok
12-24-2007, 08:00 AM
No. I think purified water is an excellent source of purified water. WTF is up with this soda crap?

lol seriously, americans all think that they just accomplished somthing huge when they decide to go on a diet and stop drinking pop. now this article says to drink pop ~_^
confusing really....

just another thing about pop...carbonation can decay teeth....and dentures would suck.... :D

RedSpikeyThing
12-24-2007, 09:18 AM
lol seriously, americans all think that they just accomplished somthing huge when they decide to go on a diet and stop drinking pop. now this article says to drink pop ~_^


Context, my friend, context.

Sensei
03-21-2009, 06:56 AM
Bump and a reminder - the POINT is that if you "can't gain weight", it isn't your metabolism, your genetics, your whatever, it's that you just aren't trying hard enough...

amounirl
04-05-2012, 07:02 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I think it's worth bumping, and just to say one thing:

The point of the article isn't that you have to eat 10000 dirty calories a day no matter who you are and what your goals are. The point of the article is the ideas of how to get in more calories. For the whole group of "hardgainers" and ectomorphs who say they can't gain weight (I used to be part of that), you have to start gradually applying some of the concepts in this article. That doesn't mean eat 10000 calories a day right off the bat, it means throw in a candy bar here and there, add some extra mayo every now and then. If you don't have to, then don't do it, because it's obviously unhealthy. If you reach the point where you don't need to eat candy bars, mayo, etc. anymore because you've jump started your weight gain or whatever other reason, then you can stop. If you start to develop high blood cholesterol or blood pressure, then like he says, stop eating dirty. But what this article is is a collection of ideas to bust through weight gain plateaus.

And someone mentioned that it's unhealthy to be over 300 lbs for too long, and that JM Blakely never addressed that, I quote:

"Having said that, let me turn the table back on your health. This style of diet can have very serious effects on your body. One effect is a dramatic improvement in your strength. But another effect is an increase in your blood cholesterol level! It would be irresponsible of me to ignore the down side?E So I'll give a few suggestions of what I feel is prudent and responsible behavior that would accompany such an eating program. (It's all common sense, anyway!)

Have your cholesterol checked before you begin. Get a baseline. If you have high levels, you may want to reconsider and see your doctor about options to lower it.

Check your cholesterol every 15-20 pounds that you gain. Or every 10 weeks on the diet. Set a limit with your doctor as to how high you will permit it to rise and remain on the diet. If it goes above such-and-such a number, abort .

Do some form of cardiovascular exercise. Minimum 3 days per week. I know you don't want to spend the precious calories on cardio, but the cv exercise will help keep the cholesterol down as well as abating some of the inevitable sluggishness that comes with weight gain. I've done it both with and without cv and I feel much ,much better with a daily walk. And you can eat just one more snickers bar to cover it. All the while your heart gets some exercise and your metabolism doesn't get so loggy.

Check your blood pressure at the start and then every four days while on the diet. Get your own monitor or find one of the countless free places that you can have it taken for you. Use the same equipment every time. Expect some increase in bp. Consult your doctor and make a decision as to what you both will tolerate. If your bp goes past the limit you have set, abort."

And he says a little bit more along those lines, but there ya go, it's a great article from a great lifter.

RhodeHouse
04-10-2012, 06:35 PM
Great advice for all those who aren't tough enough to gain weight. JM was a master of weight manipulation.

Sensei
04-10-2012, 08:51 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I think it's worth bumping, and just to say one thing:

The point of the article isn't that you have to eat 10000 dirty calories a day no matter who you are and what your goals are. The point of the article is the ideas of how to get in more calories. For the whole group of "hardgainers" and ectomorphs who say they can't gain weight (I used to be part of that), you have to start gradually applying some of the concepts in this article. That doesn't mean eat 10000 calories a day right off the bat, it means throw in a candy bar here and there, add some extra mayo every now and then. If you don't have to, then don't do it, because it's obviously unhealthy. If you reach the point where you don't need to eat candy bars, mayo, etc. anymore because you've jump started your weight gain or whatever other reason, then you can stop. If you start to develop high blood cholesterol or blood pressure, then like he says, stop eating dirty. But what this article is is a collection of ideas to bust through weight gain plateaus.

...

And he says a little bit more along those lines, but there ya go, it's a great article from a great lifter.

Thank you - JM is one of the best. Sadly, it's not a shock that so many people can't read an article like this and see the wisdom in it... and thank you RhodeHouse.

My reality is this - I work w. high school kids ALL THE TIME who cry about not being able to put on quality weight and almost 100% of them (and I'm not exaggerating) simply fail to put in the necessary effort at the "training table".

"What do you eat for breakfast?"
"Umm, well... My first period class is early so..."
"Sometimes I'll have some juice...."
"I had an energy bar this morning."

Very rarely do I hear a kid say "I had an orange juice, yogurt, PB&J sandwich, and topped that off with a protein shake." When I do, they are NOT a kid with a problem putting on weight.

DontTakeEmOff31
04-11-2012, 11:02 AM
This article makes me want to drop my cutting phase and start eating 6000 calories a day again.

Same issue of the fear of gaining fat stopping progress. You can always cut after if that is what concerns you.

Not to derail the thread, but to the people who are used to eating like monsters. Have you done any heavy conditioning while doing a serious bulk? Did it help keep some fat off while gaining, or did it just slow the gain down overall? Always wondered about this.

Behemoth
04-12-2012, 07:46 AM
There's nothing more pathetic than making excuses for not being able to gain weight. Unless you have tape worms you're a bitch if you can't.

Sensei
04-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Not to derail the thread, but to the people who are used to eating like monsters. Have you done any heavy conditioning while doing a serious bulk? Did it help keep some fat off while gaining, or did it just slow the gain down overall? Always wondered about this.
Doing some cardio will go a looooong way towards just making you feel better overall - and that matters a lot when you are heavier than you'd prefer to be anyway.

Walking/hiking, unless you are going really hard and/or more than a few miles/day, shouldn't impact recovery much.

RhodeHouse
04-13-2012, 11:53 PM
There's nothing more pathetic than making excuses for not being able to gain weight. Unless you have tape worms you're a bitch if you can't.

Extremely well said.

Ender Wiggin
04-15-2012, 12:03 AM
....

DontTakeEmOff31
04-20-2012, 12:55 PM
Had a quick question about bulking overall, didn't think it was worth it to start a thread so I figured I'd post it here.

I'm getting in around 5000 - 5500 calories a day right now. About 3000 of those is from drinking (Gallon of 1% milk, whey and peanut butter shakes, glyco maize + gatorade, and results). Does it really matter that a good portion of my calories are from liquids? I'm guessing it doesn't, but was curious about it either way, as I prefer drinking the calories if I can.

RichMcGuire
04-21-2012, 06:41 PM
Had a quick question about bulking overall, didn't think it was worth it to start a thread so I figured I'd post it here.

I'm getting in around 5000 - 5500 calories a day right now. About 3000 of those is from drinking (Gallon of 1% milk, whey and peanut butter shakes, glyco maize + gatorade, and results). Does it really matter that a good portion of my calories are from liquids? I'm guessing it doesn't, but was curious about it either way, as I prefer drinking the calories if I can.

It makes no difference as long as you're getting the Calories in.

Bako Lifter
04-21-2012, 07:21 PM
Had a quick question about bulking overall, didn't think it was worth it to start a thread so I figured I'd post it here.

I'm getting in around 5000 - 5500 calories a day right now. About 3000 of those is from drinking (Gallon of 1% milk, whey and peanut butter shakes, glyco maize + gatorade, and results). Does it really matter that a good portion of my calories are from liquids? I'm guessing it doesn't, but was curious about it either way, as I prefer drinking the calories if I can.

Liquid or solid, its the same. But liquid calories are so much easier to consume. More than half of my cals come from milk and shakes over a 40 pound bulk. I can maybe eat up to 1,000 calories in a sitting, leaving me stuffed, but can always top it off with two cups of milk.